Help - My engine was sabotaged! - need advice - rebuild or replace
 

What a dark and mysterious story.

I bought an 81' SC a three years ago with 130,000 miles. I recently discovred that at some point in the past someone put a foreign substance in the oil tank.

I recently discovered this when my new mechanic Frank (whom I do trust by the way) did an oil change. I was hanging out chatting with him while he did the oil change and he pointed out some weird crud on the drain plug. We then scrapped around in the oil tank and discovered a course, grainy substance, which my mechanic thinks is "Absorbal". I'm still dumbfounded as to how and why it got in there, but our best guess is that a former mechanic put it in there to create mechanical problems. I also wonder if the prior owner didn't pay a bill and this was some kind of payback.

Anyways....I've got no recourse to anyone....so here I am.

Most recently, the car was making a terrible knocking in the valve train and the following is what Frank discovered. The oil feeder tubes to the cam & lobes are clogged with crud. The oil starvation has ruined one cam and caused who knows what damage to the rest of the top end and the rest of the engine.

So here I am........the key question is what to do next.

Can I ask for some feedback on the following (all amounts are in CDN $ = 90% of a US dollar):

A - Spend $3,000 to replace cams, the cam followers, basically deal with everything "above the heads". While this may improve things in the short run, I still have the issue of likely long term damage to the bottom end and the heads, so I may be just postponing more expensive problems

B - Buy a used engine. Frank has offerred to sell me a 3.0 ltr (79') engine from a car that he is swapping a 3.6 into. This would be subject to a proper leakdown test, etc. Cost $4,500 installed. Keep in mind that the supply of engines up here in Canada is not the same as the states.

C - Completely rebuild my engine. Cost $8,000


I'm at a tough spot here, because part of me tells me to "dump the car". I bought the car for $20,000 and have put in $10,000 in upgrades and repairs to date including:
7 & 9" Fuchs with SO3s
SSIs
Turbo tie rods.

None of those upgrades are going to improve the resale value up here in Canada, so even if I put $3,000 into her under option A and then try to sell the car, not only would I only get $20,000 if I'm really lucky, but I'd have the bad karma to deal with.

Its never really run well anyways...which has hurt my "happy owner factor", so I guess my instinct is to suck it up, buy a good used engine and get on with life and take this as an important life lesson (MEAN PEOPLE SUCK)

When will the money pit end?

Why wasn't this discovered at the first oil change after purchase? Am I missing something here?

I asked myself the same question.

Would some mechanics ignore a bit of crud?

What do I do, now that the deed is done, I'm still faced with the problem.

Which of the 4 mechanics that I have dealt with do I go after? Who do I trust?

I'm stumped...

On the plus side, my current mechanic Frank is a LOT less expensive than other mechanics, I've known him personally for a few years and everyone who knows him says good things about him.

There was a guy there tonight who takes his 79 turbo to Frank that he has owned since new. He has put a fortune into that car (382 RWH) and he trusts Frank to work on his car...would he have that kind of loyalty if he screwed people over?

I feel your pain!!! I would go with the used 3.0 for now, Break down and sell the parts from your old machine, the good ones.... and upgrade to a 3.2 or something down the road. Move on and drive away from the bad memories. Best, Gordon

what should I ask for as a "core value" for my motor?

I'd rather not try to sell off parts on my own?

My mechanic says he is paying $4,000 for the 3.0 as part of his trade on selling the 3.6.

He is telling me he will charge me $4500 to swap the engine, put my SSIs on it, etc.


Also, what kind of warranty should I ask for?

Should I shoot for $3500 to factor in the value of the current parts, or does my suspect engine really have no value?

Either way...I'm going to get a second opinion.

Your motor condition is unknown. Assuming crank,rods,case,and misc. are ok, a BIG assumption by the way, it may be worth, 1200 to 2600, big guess!!! Warranty on used would be hard, but 90 days or 3000 miles should indicate reasonable health . Your engine could have major damage, so value is impossible to say. swapout costs sound reasonable, The 3.0 condition should be backed up by records, mileage, comp. test etc. G

Cars, boats, bikes and the like are all burn barrels we throw money into, hence the love hate relationship.

With the original motor a full rebuild is required, doing it half way with what you decribed is a bad idea. A swap is a quick way to get back on the road. WARNING!!! Fully clean out the tank, external oil thermostat, oil lines, and front cooler. You don't want any of the mystery crud in the new motor.

Good luck It wil be worth in the end

The people who do this are absolute lowlives!

Re: Help - My engine was sabotaged! - need advice - rebuild or replace
 

You bought the car 3 YEARS ago and you are finding out the problems now... i mean how did the car run for all those 3 years...AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE :confused:

Things that make you go hmm...

if you get really exercised about this, you could hire a forensic chemist... a good criminal lawyer will know how to get one -- or if you have friends inside of the the Canadian "EPA"
- won't be cheap but he can compare that with items your lawyer gets from the shops of the 3-4 mechanics he does discovery on...

As said before, spring for the rebuilt 3.0 with the upgrades from yours. Sell off the good parts from your trashed engine (have the mechanic tell you want is good & what is not), and drive off into the sunset. Your mechanic is giving you a good deal for that engine installed. If you get a little warrantee, that's even better. You might document it with your mechanic and save some of the crud in case you decide to do something down the road.

I'm with Randy on this one as I'd like to know what I'm dealing with.

Do the oil analysts check for stuff besides metal? I've seen their ads - send them a vial of your drain oil and they'll send you a report on the health (or not) of your powerplant. Just a thought.

Go for plan B. I've used Frank recently for some major work, and I know Bill too (turbo owner). Frank seems honest and competent, and his hourly rate is reasonable. Can he do a compression and leakdown test on the replacement engine for you first?

When it's fixed, send us some pictures and enjoy driving it!

Supertec offers a 2 year unlimited mile warranty on their rebuilds! You should definitely consider going with Henry - his rep is outstanding. And he get engines sent to him from all over the world! 760.728.3062

For a little more you can get a 3.2 engine instead - psychologically it might feel better to pay all that money and be at least a little ahead of where you were when you started. =)

typically, oil analysts check fo silicon ('dirt') and a few organics, such as acids - call to see what each does

Be sure to save all the gunk with a witness watching - have them record on paper the date/time and what you are doing - this is essentially what the National Water Quality Lab & EPA etc. do when they get in samples from what looks to be an illegal operation - they want it to stand up in Court

the std. oil analysis will be very cost-effective - send them some of it, but by no means all

You might also write a letter with all the names of the shops on the letterhead and send it to them -- see which one starts cleaning up big time & you may have found the perp.

Altho you have given a very dark tale, it is still possible that a simple mistake was made...

I agree re the 3.2 - the heads flow a lot better too. Or maybe a 3.6 would be fun.

If I was you, I'd have taken the oil filter apart to see how much crud was in there. A bit of dirt in the oil should get cleaned out by the filter the first circuit through the oil system. If there is heavy crud in there, it likely would stay put in the bottom of the tank until is was drained out. If it's still in the tank, it hasn't caused any damage - right?

The fact that any crud remains would suggest that the crud made it's way in there between this oil change and the previous one. Another possible source of crud is if someone drained the oil to set the valves and then poured it back into the engine afterwards.

The way I read this tale of woe, no way to find out who, or when the foreign substance was added. ANYONE with access to your car could have done it. Disgruntled girlfriend, a guy you don't get along with, the list could be a long one. So, probably best to try to forget about the who done it stuff, move on into the how best to get back on the road stuff. Does your car insurance cover vandalism? There may be some financial help due from the insurance company...My insurance covered a long ago engine fire in my 1970 911T.. Your insurance would probably insist on a stock engine rebuild, IF you're covered.

hmmmm engine fire+insurance=rebuilt motor.

Paul makes a good point - any one with access to the car's oil filler tube (i.e. trunk) during the period of ownership of you or the PO or maybe more than 1 PO... the period during which this could have been done and not detected could be pretty long.

I'd still do an oil analysis.

BTW - have you checked the gas tank???

Anything remaining in the oil system will damage your replacement engine.

You will need to have all the lines, the oil tank, the thermostat and oil cooler(s) flushed out really well to be sure that what ever damaged this engine is gone.

When we had track cars lose an engine, we would always flush the system out and sometimes replace coolers that were suspect of still having materials trapped in them.



Ed

thanks to all have responded - i'll check with my insurance company

Wow man, that sucks. I mean, I've found some pretty weird stuff done to my car, but nothing like that.

If you don't mind, can you pm me the past (suspect) wrenches you've used, so I know who to avoid in the area? I usually stick with the same place (Mantis) but depending on what needs to be done, I've used other places.

My $0.02 would be to go with a 3.2 - like someone already said, may as well go for a bit of an upgrade after spending all that dough. Although $4500 cdn for a 3.0 installed is a pretty damn good price.

Chris

I would call Henry at Supertec and ask if he has an engine he can sell you for a reasonable price...he recently had one listed on this site in the classifieds - do a search.

You'll get a 2 year warranty, unlimited mileage...and he does great work.

If the 3.0 you are contemplating has no known history and you cannot verify the condition, you are accepting risk if you move forward with that option, as well.

Rebuilding or getting a good rebuilt with a warranty gives you a known good engine...

Sorry to hear about the news. I just saw this thread from the other one you have about the 2 engine choices. You've got more patience than me to stick it out with the same car, but I definitely see why.

Just on another note, could you tell me who Frank is and which shop he owns/runs? Is he in the west end or elsewhere? I've got a great mechanic in the east end, but it's always good to have another backup.

Good luck.

p.s. I'd go for the $4k motor as long as it's got the compression/leakdown and headstuds verified...