Stock 930 (6K miles) - To Mod Or Not To Mod
 

Hi guys…..
My first post, but I’ve been watching the forum for a while now and can’t believe the amount of first class info available here. Really great…..
I have only fairly recently had the good fortune to buy my first Porsche, it is an `86’ 911 turbo, white with black leather interior, and I gotta say that I am so glad that I did. The driving experience is so different to that of my previous cars (mostly German). I love the way that you really have to drive the thing…….Reminds me in a really strange way of a 3 series landrover i owned long ago.
So far so good, but I have a bit of a dilemma going on in my head, and some advice from you guys may help me to resolve it one way or another.
Here goes…the car is extremely original, and has only 5800 miles from new, it really is in as new condition. (Still has the original yellow porsche sticker on the glove box cover) The previous owner was an elderly gentleman who collected cars, and bought this one only to more or less store it away for 18 years. It has however always been looked after and serviced regularly.

As I intend to drive the car as it was meant to be driven (probably 3000 miles / year) i made a few changes to improve the handling.

1. changed the original tyres to Bridgestone SO2’s
2. fitted a Weltmeister strut brace
3.changed out the rear Bilsteins for some Bilstein Sports
4. fitted some pagid brake pads and uprated to st/st braided brake lines

All of these changes can be reversed, to bring the car back to stock if required.

Now......I love the idea of developing more of the engines potential, and there are plenty of bolt on bits that would do this. However there is a part of me that tells me not to be drawn down that route……(would it be easy to stop once started?)
My question really is this…..would you modify the car further and if so, what would you recommend….or would you leave alone and enjoy the car as is?. Please help…..

Many thanks in advance for any responses.

Best regards.
Dave.

Leave alone and enjoy as it is. Once the engine comes out, it is indeed hard to stop! The "while you're in there" spiral of death soon takes over! I went a little crazy with my engine build, but only did so because I was in need of engine repairs. I was happy with things the way they were. Many of the OEM parts (in NOS condition) are getting scarce, maybe replace things with "upgraded" parts (mods) as you need them. Save everything you remove.

The most common bolt-on mods for a 930 are:
-B&B headers
-Fabspeed exhaust
-K27 turbo found on the 965: comes in many configurations (S, HF, HF2, etc.) all depends on your budget and goals
-more efficient inter-cooler: B&B, original 965, Kolkeln (which replaces the heavy BOV housing on the throttle body with a simplier valve)
-modified fuel head (you might not need this as your car probably has the Euro head that flows more fuel).

Many install a 1.0 BAR waste gate spring, I'd leave the stock spring alone. It's a cheap way to get more horspower, but can cause more harm than good. I have a Tial waste gate with a .8 BAR spring. I think stock is .7 BAR.

Check here:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=271227

Another opinion
 

Either you stole this car or you have a few quid in your jeans. Might I suggest a second, less pristine car to do the mods to and keep this one for special occasions?

Why not enjoy the car as it is for a few years, then perhaps try a few of the bolt on performance modifications a few years down the line? That way you spread out the fun.

Dave,

Leave it alone and work on keeping it nice. In the long run, it'll be more valuable that way. Modified 930's are everywhere. Nice, stock ones are like finding a needle in a hay stack. There was a book long ago that gave this advice: preserve the car's original attributes. There's still lot's to do to accomplish that goal. Nice cars, in England, are getting pretty rare, what with the weather you have and people's tendencies to drive their cars in wet conditions.

Congratulations on the purchase,
JR

I lamented over the same question. I decided that I would allow myself to only upgrade my car in a "bolt-on' manner.If it can't be changed back, it won't get changed in the first place. Some things must be done like pop-off valve and Carrera tentioners but that is a diff. story.
How about a few pics of your new baby?

I say modify it now if you want more power. Get a ride in a car that has some mods. The best mod out there is to yank the old crappy CIS and do EFI. Plus all the above mods. I say why wait? You never know when you will end up like the PO. Times a wasting.

The temptation to mod is a HUGE one. I've had my 930 for about a year now and I've fought the urge but it may be a loosing battle. I recomend to leave as is, since you probably haven't explored the limts in its current configuration.

In time you will be familiar with your car and THEN do a mod or two. Always saving more for later. (as they say, less is more). Prolong the pleasure by taking it slowly (kind of like making love).

WE NEED PICS!!!!!!


Q.

Thanks for the replies guys.....
Looks like the majority would keep it standard for the time being, wait a while and maybe do a few mods at a time. Will certainly give it some thought......

rbuswell
Ye mate the car cost me about £5k over what i could have bought a pretty nice 930 with a lowish mileage, but i figured that as the car came with a year guarantee and was on the face of it faultless, then i would probably not end up having to spend money fixing things. So far so good.....and really pleased with it.

I will attempt to post some pictures now.....here goes.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148127777.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148127963.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148128030.jpg

Few more photies........http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148128205.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148128229.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148128304.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148128348.jpg
still on original rubber when purchased.....amazingly the guys who fitted the new tyres reckoned that they would have probably been ok for a few thousand miles.....didn't really want to try my luck though......

That is a beautiful ride ...... keep it as it is ....... amazing

I would keep it stock, as unmolested cars are fairly rare beasts. Once you start to see the power increases and reduction of turbo lag from each bolt on, the money will start to flow.
If you want to preserve resale keep as is.

Dave,

First, WELCOME to the Forum, at least now actively participating and not just lurking.

I will come in on the preservation side and recommend a more extreme approach. The value is in its unique originality. The fun (aside from driving) is in keeping it that way. You haven’t strayed much and I encourage you to find NOS parts and return it exactly as delivered. That might even include finding NOS original tyres – you can have a 2nd set of wheels with current technology tyres for sport driving.

Some other fun projects might be to document its provenance. The original Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin from Porsche, the original sales receipt, the interesting PO collection, etc. are worthwhile additions. A collection of the period original showroom sales literature, advertising, technical documents, service information is all part of the existence of the 930.

I don’t know if someone has written a book on the 930 or “The Turbocharged Porsches” but there is plenty of information in existence. At least you could put together a linage that shows Turbos before and after your 930.

There are original parts that even at only 10 years are now getting in short supply. You could identify them and maintain a small NOS parts collection.

I am not suggesting you make it a “Garage Queen” and not use it. They are meant to be driven. At 3K mi/yr, in 10 years (2016) it will have 35,800 miles. It will benefit from the exercise.

If you feel the “need for speed” and on-track experience, add a race car.
If you like to tinker, build a custom hot rod.


I like to think of us at “the current caretaker” of some of these special cars. In return for care and preservation we get the privilege of ownership and the thrill of use. Where will your 930 be in 2106?

Best,
Grady

I second Gradys comments - that car is too nice to modify!

Good to see another geordie Dave on the board too!

How do you keep the TWOC'ers off your car up in the toon?

I have your identical car (except my steering wheel is on the "correct" side :D ).

I avoided the urge to mod for two years 'cause my 930 was faster than 90% of the cars out there. Back then, I also thought - someday - I would be selling it.

I was wrong.

I can never sell it.

Since it is my car forever (no future owner to please), and with every little pocket rocket hitting 60 in less than 6 seconds, it was time to step back up to the plate. I changed the exhaust, and I will pull the A/C soon to save weight. Next are SC cams, then eventually EFI.

With your car, as it has such low mileage, I'd attempt to keep it stock... until you decide it is yours forever and the mod bug chews through your skin... SmileWavy

Your car mirrored!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148140506.jpg

Your steering wheel is backwards....fix that and leave the rest as is. I love it ....it is a great ride and should be left alone.

Grady.....
Great reply....certainly puts another perspective on things.....

I have to admit that after reading it and all of the other responses here, i am starting to think seriously about keeping this car stock.
I kept the few original items that i have changed so far.....shocks, etc, and will definitely keep them with a mind to the future.
My plans at the moment are to keep the car indefinitely, so the future values don't make a huge difference in my decision, however it seems that there aren't too many low mileage cars of this type, so as Javadog said earlier maybe i should just concentrate my efforts on preserving the original attributes of the car and enjoy as is.

Looks like my first post here could be saving me some serious dinero!!!!

Dave.

Good idea to get another 911 and go nuts on mods. Keeping this one stock and with low miles, keeps its uniqueness and value.

Look at it this way, if you were to modify this car and put some decent miles on it, the car's value would drop dramatically. That loss in value would probably be equivalent to spending the money on another car to fix up! Best of both worlds -clean original and anther one for everything else.....

I would leave it alone. In the coming years, 10 or 15, that car, original is going to be very valuable if you can keep the miles down a tad.
A modded one, no matter how sweet, always carries an * in the mind of the onlookers.
Great looking car.

What a beauty. Please don't molest it like so many do. I'm sick of seeing timeless classics looking like they came out of "da hood".

If you're going to upgrade, do so mildly and keep the original parts (very important). Try to keep the miles down. It will be worth a nice chunk of change in the future.

Congrats!

Dude - Its your car...you do what you want with it....ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. You want to modify and make it a 500whp monster that goes up the Motorway sideways...then do it....you want to leave it stock....then go for it.

The Porsche community is mixed bag of modify and drive it like you stole it or leave it alone and keep it box stock or some just do not even drive their cars period.

Ask yourself...what gets your crank turning... is it driving on some backroad at full tilt with the engine bouncing to redline or keeping it under a cover in your garage....?

Only you can answer these questions for yourself.

Hope that helps.

And yes...I modify and drive it like I stole it.

Yasin

Of my two 911's one is fully modded and one is stock with a body kit (see my profile).....

While I fully enjoy the speed and whine of the 3.6 at the end of the day I love the smoothness and relative quietness of my stock car.......

The key is on the wrong side....

Sport exhaust so they know to get out of the way otherwise leave it stock.

in the long run you'll wish it were stock and immaculate.......

I simply don't understand this fetish about keeping a 20 year old, CIS car stock. Personally, I feel no compulsion at all to be "true to the original", since the original's function can be improved on in every conceivable way, while still having it look, and be, every inch a Porsche. I suppose if you are keen on the car as an "investment", that's one thing. But otherwise, life's far too short, and the stock suggestion that you have one 930 to keep clean and one to hop-up is impractical for the vast majority of us.

Mods that don't offend the "Porscheness" of your car are out there by the truckload. Do them right, or get the right people to do them right, and the car will once again be the supercar it was when it was made.

I have a 1978 930 and I've modified the bejeezus out of it. It is 5 times the car it was when I bought it. Nothing crazy--no Ford V8s, just the usual Porsche hop-ups on the engine, fuel and spark, suspension, tranny, etc.

500 + hp to the ground at 1 bar. It would run circles around its prior self. And, by any fair measure, it is a Porsche through and through.

That's why its good to have a 2nd 930 for if you have an immaculate one already.

To be honest i have considered another Porsche for use as an everyday car, one that i could modify, thrash the hell out of etc.

In reality though it would have to be an older (cheaper) car and i'm not sure if i could handle taking the thing out on the salt lashed roads that we have in the frozen wastelands of northern England.

I don't really fancy jetwashing a car everytime i use it...... (sorry)....
Once a week maybe yes.

Are there older Porsche owners here that use their cars in these type of conditions, if so how do they and their cars cope?

Cheers.
Dave.

ps. My current everyday car is a 9 year old BMW 328 coupe which has coped really well,with everything that has been thrown at it.
Strange that i don't have guilt trips about leaving it a week or two without a good clean.....a Porsche not so sure......

I have an 88 turbo cab so I'll chime in.

I would do the bolt on mods for several reasons. The bolt on mods make the car so much more fun to drive. You have much more power (roughly 100 hp) and less lag. I find a stock turbo almost boring to drive now. So if you have a car that you plan to drive indefinitely, why not make it as enjoyable to drive as possible? Unless of course if your goal is not to drive it much and instead trailer it around to car shows with a sign on it that says "100% stock". And you'll need that sign because these mods are something most people wouldn't even notice.

Secondly, it is my understanding these bolt on mods are actually good for the car. The stock intercooler stinks as does the stock turbo. Headers and a new muffler allow the car to run cooler and better. It's not like you are putting nitrous in the car and are risking blowing it up. And besides, you just keep the stock stuff and put it back on if needed.

Thirdly, we are talking about an 86 turbo. I feel this isn't some collector car that is going to be worth huge dollars. This isn't a Ferrari they made 10 of. It also isn't a great year as it isn't the first or last of the line. It didn't have any major changes that make it desirable; say like an 89 which was the last year of the classic look and first with a 5 speed. Don't get me wrong. It's a very nice car but I'm guessing there must be a thousand of these out there. And by driving it 3000 miles a year it will no longer be a unique low miles car.

If it helps, I left my turbo stock for a year. I then did the bolt on mods and kept the stock stuff. In 8 years I have never wanted to put the stock stuff back on. My goal is to enjoy my car as much as possible. I don't see the point in enjoying my car less just to make the next owner happy because he always wanted a stock turbo. And in the end it won't much matter since I'll be dead, because that's the only way the car will ever be sold. Good luck.

Dave, what a great car. As a point of reference I bought an '87 3.2 Carrera in pristine shape with 55,000 miles on the odometer. Since I bought it I have put in a cage, racing seats, harnesses, new sway bars, struts, shccks and I have participated in at least 13 track events with the car. I have had a blast. However, 3.2 Carreras with 55,000 miles are just not that rare and I suspect that even stock I am facing minimal appreciation over time. A 930 with less than 6,000 miles is another animal completely. That is a very rare car indeed, and one that you can look forward to having significant appreciation over time. I would refresh the suspension, after all those years the rubber bits have seen better days, and drive it on nice sunny days. If your car had 60,000 miles I would say go for it, but 5,800 miles.....

An SC or Carrera is a much more enjoyable track car. You can modify the crap out of it and have a blast on the track or on a back road. You really have something special and over time you will grow to understand just how special. Congratulations on finding such a great car.

Regards,
rickdm

Mods
 

Great question. One that I have pondered. I have cut the recirculation system out of mine and have a Borla on it. Yours being a Euro with 300 HP (no recirculation pump) and extremely low miles, I would leave it as is except for perhaps an exhaust mod which can be reversed. If you are looking for mind bending speed, buy a Duke or an R1. When the 930 came out, it was literally history in the making. It still is a piece of history. Preserve.

2 cents worth
Cheers

I agree with most of the other posts. Keep it original and enjoy it for what it is, not try to make it into something else. Learn all about the car, it's advantages and its quirks. Collect period brochures and build a history. Maintain it replacing time worn items. Yours is not an every day 930, it is a special, rare, unmolested original. Choose to keep it that way, or sell it to someone who will -- it's a valuable piece of Porsche history.

I have gotten into the more leave it alone mode too...Its will never be the same if you mod it..You can always mod it but never put it back to how it was. At least not without even more $$$..Just my 2 cents..but hey..I am building a crazy one too. :) :)

Hi Dave,

There's not a great deal of nice unmodified 930's left in the UK, I would say leave it alone!

Cheers,

Tim.

So what if this guy's car had 50,000 miles on it, instead of 5,000? Would the clamor to "leave it alone" be so loud? I doubt it. And the difference is attributable, I think, to the notion that the car's value on resale would justify leaving it alone if had such extraordinarily low mileage.

And that makes fine sense, if you buy and drive (or in the case of "investments", essentially don't drive) these things for "investment purposes". But, personally, my garage is a garage, and not a museum. I don't purchase or drive my cars primarily as pieces of history, or as shrines to the manufacturers, nor do I think of myself as a custodian on behalf of all other Porsche owners of true Porsche originality. I buy them to drive the snot out of them, as they were meant to be driven when they were made. I'll let the truly rich build the shrines and museums. But I'll use my money to better the car consistent with the true Porsche tradition--respectful of the car's past but always looking for improvement.

All that said, the universe of Porsche owners is broad. It's good that there are all types in it.

Hi and nice car!

I agree with another poster, whilst having low miles will warrant a premium price it will never appreciate significantly (just made in too many numbers) - especially if you intend putting further miles on it.

I have an 86 3.2 that stays in the garage, comes out mainly in the sun only and covers around 1,500 miles a year. I wash it when i can be bothered (once or twice a year - the interior hasn't been cleaned for as long as i can remember). Its never gonna be worth anything but it should last as long as me ;)

Personally I would use yours in a similar fashion. I think yours is too good for everyday use. I would not worry about making mods as long as it can be returned to stock.

JMHO. Good luck.

My '86 930 has 65K miles and I've chosen to mod the bejezus out of it. The chassis really begs for more power in my opinion.

For God sake leave that fabulous time machine alone !!!