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durn for'ner
 
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Brake fluid change success. Good old method. Pic.

Changed brake fluid today. Decided on the gravitation method. Worked like a charm. Started right rear, then left rear, right front and left front. Picked up a short piece of hose and a liter of brake fluid. Arched the hose with a bit of string to avoid air entrance. One end on the nipple the other pointing down into a bottle. Opened the nipple but the fluid came out in slow drops and being alone I was afraid of pumping the pedal and draw air in threw the container. With a little trial and error I worked out a system where I pumped 6-8 times on the pedal. Filled it up again. And so on. Rear right (chicken with the pedal) took forty minutes. Faster wheel by wheel, so left front took only ten minutes. In total almost two hours including jacking up the car, removing and reinstalling the wheels. Next time I will do it in 45 minutes total.

The pedal feel and brake effect is much better. Feels safe!

Here´s a pic of the setup.

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Old 06-10-2006, 01:16 PM
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Ahhhh..another convert to the simple, reliable, slow ( but good !) gravity bleeding method......nice job !.


Hint...next time use flare wrenches...don't risk stripping the hex on these buggers...

Wil
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Old 06-10-2006, 05:54 PM
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durn for'ner
 
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Thanks Wil !

That little bugger nipple needed a 9 mm wrench. I have dozens of sizes, but could not find a 9 mm for my life in the garage. Was about to give up and go to the store, when I came to think of the original tool set in the front compartment. And what do you know, there it was! Not flare, but still.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:57 PM
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I too have an 85...but I thought these were 7mm..... I'm not certain they are, but that was my faint recollection.

????

- Wil
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:23 AM
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durn for'ner
 
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My garage 'collection' included several 10 and 8 mm. Reminded me of my time in the Swedish Army. Their clothing outfits came in two sizes: too big or too small.

BTW, in the master cylinder reservoir, I suppose the 'high' level corresponds approx. to the 'ceiling' of the reservoir ? But I can´t figure out where the 'low' level mark is ?

And, holy smoke, these little cars have tremendous brake power. I am literary hanging in the belt now.
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:37 AM
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Ahhh another timely post as I'm just about ready to do the same thing. I've got some ATE Gold to replace my ATE Blue. Can I ask about the sequence of steps? Let me know if I've got this right (or wrong):

1. Place car on 4 jack stands
2. Remove 4 wheels
3. Siphon most of the existing fluid from the resevoir under the hood?
4. Fill resevoir w/new fluid
5. Starting w/right rear - hook up hose to nipple on brake caliper as shown in photo above (thanks for the image)!
6. Loosen nipple and wait?
7. Place block under brake pedal to prevent full motion - to the floor
8. Gently pump pedal a few times to help the fluid get going
9. Check resevoir often to make sure there's always fluid so as not to suck air into the system - fill w/new fluid as needed
10. When the new color fluid is flowing out of the brake caliper nipple, tighten the nipple
11. Move on to the left rear, then the right front and finally the left front.
12. Repeat as needed until a firm pedal is achieved?

Is that basically it?

Tom
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Old 06-11-2006, 01:30 PM
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durn for'ner
 
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Tom,

Thats pretty much exactly what I did, except for no 7 - I did not bother with the block under the pedal.

Oh, and I raised car one wheel at a time. Only have two jack stands.

Pay attention where you put your hands once you get going with the constant refilling. Inevitably get brake fluid on your hands. Poison for the paint job - as you know.
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Old 06-11-2006, 01:49 PM
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You forgot to give a beer to your brake bleeding buddy after the job is done.
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Old 06-11-2006, 02:24 PM
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After? during!!

Cheers
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Old 06-11-2006, 02:42 PM
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Tom:

No need to pump the pedal...just let gravity work. The MC reservoir will always be higher than the caliper, and will provide the "push".

Also no need to risk spillage and ruining paint by syphoning off the MC. No need to syphon.

If you have the flare nut wrenches...get it placed on the nipple before you attach the hose...a bit easier that way.

you can tighten nipple ( to stop flow)...so you can add new fluid w/o any timing stress. Then re-open to continue the process.

- Wil
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Old 06-11-2006, 02:54 PM
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Listen to Wil, gravity sucks, and is always consistent.
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Old 06-11-2006, 03:04 PM
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I have to say that I just helped a fellow pelican bleed before a track day at Sears, and I have to say that the gravity method would not have worked. We went around his car at least five times using aggressive pumps on the pedal before another pelican came over, and had us repeat the process while he tapped the caliper while we pumped. I was amazed to see bubbles escape from all four corners. I would not trust the gravity method.
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Old 06-11-2006, 04:12 PM
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Don't know why it wouldn't work for you.... gravity has *always* resulted in a nice, high , firm pedal for me.....AND:

....it avoids driving the MC piston deep into the bore ( as you might when pumping)...perhaps so deep as to contact the "rough" inside surface that the piston normally doesn't see. Result?..torn seal and seal leakage. This simply cannot happen via gravity....

to each his own.....

- Wil
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Old 06-11-2006, 07:38 PM
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I guess, once the system is tight, I wouldn't have a problem doing it that way. It just surprised me that there was still air in the system after so many iterations of aggressive pumping. You're right about the potential damage to the seals. I might try gravity with tapping and see how it goes.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:00 PM
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durn for'ner
 
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Wil,

I started out just opening the nipple, but the fluid came out so slow, drop by drop. I believe right rear, furthest from MC would have taken at least an hour. By pushing the pedal delicately a few times I could speed up the process to about 10 minutes per wheel. Constantly refilling MC reservoir.

So, what would be the low level mark in the reservoir ? Before sucking in air ? I was probably over cautious, did not let the level go more than 2 cm below the 'ceiling' of reservoir.
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:56 PM
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Markus, did you push the pedal with the valve open or closed?
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:59 AM
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I'm curious why no one uses a vacuum pump (mityvac) to bleed?
Far better than gravity and no chance of MC damage.
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:32 AM
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Valve open, Pål.

Not sure I understand what the point would be with valve closed ?

You planning on this project ?
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:38 AM
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Thank you Markus. Yes, this is another project on my list for the summer
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:25 AM
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durn for'ner
 
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Yes, hmm, summer projects..

I have still not done the shifter bushings. Afraid I´ll ruin the linkage and not be able to find the gears again after fiddling with the new coupler. I am such a whoosh.

Anyway, I am also (almost) set on doing a complete maintenance this summer including the ignition parts - spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor. Air filter, engine oil + filter and (grab hold) the dreaded valve adjustment. You done that yet your self ? What kind of feeler blades did you use ?
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Old 06-12-2006, 04:00 AM
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