New Torsion Bars 22mm and 30mm

[MysticAlpaca]

I got my Targa back from Speedware Motorsports with the new Torsion Bars in place and WOW what a difference it made.

I ended up with 22mm on the front and 30mm on the rear. I also replaced the stock spring plate bushings with Neatrix bushings from Pelican.

So now I have the following changes:

Torsion bars: 22mm front 30mm rear
Neatrix spring plate bushings
Bilstein Sport’s for the front and rear
Rennline triangulated strut brace
Turbo tie rods
Lowered, corner balanced and aligned

Still have stock 6 and 7's 16" Fuchs.

The previous changes prior to the TB's and bushings were good but the car still leaned a lot and the rear felt sloppy or wagged during quick maneuvers. The torsion bar change made a huge difference in how it handles and responds on the road. The lean seems to be almost gone and now I just point the car and it responds crisply. In fact I was alarmed at first by how agile the front end became and the rear end just followed it and stayed planted during quick lane changes.

I was worried about the 30mm being too harsh (that was all that was avialible at the time), but in reality they are just fine, in fact I am glad I didn't go with my original plan of 28's or 29's. Having a heavier Carrera may be why the 30mm work so well. Over really rough road with pits and lips I can tell that it is a stiffer ride now but still not overly harsh.

Now I may get upgraded sway-bars to dial it in a little bit more once I get used to the new feel. I am not sure what if any upgrades beyond this I may do or need to do to the suspension.


--bill

[rfuerst911sc]

That's the same size T bars I had installed a few weeks ago and I agree with your feelings on the big improvement.

[Vipergrün]

If you have not already, you should really get your Bilsteins re-valved to match your cars new characteristics. I believe you already have 22/21mm sway bars, which should be a good compliment.

[Chulo]

Originally posted by MysticAlpaca
I got my Targa back from Speedware Motorsports with the new Torsion Bars in place and WOW what a difference it made.

I ended up with 22mm on the front and 30mm on the rear. I also replaced the stock spring plate bushings with Neatrix bushings from Pelican.

So now I have the following changes:

Torsion bars: 22mm front 30mm rear
Neatrix spring plate bushings
Bilstein Sport’s for the front and rear
Rennline triangulated strut brace
Turbo tie rods
Lowered, corner balanced and aligned

Still have stock 6 and 7's 16" Fuchs.

The previous changes prior to the TB's and bushings were good but the car still leaned a lot and the rear felt sloppy or wagged during quick maneuvers. The torsion bar change made a huge difference in how it handles and responds on the road. The lean seems to be almost gone and now I just point the car and it responds crisply. In fact I was alarmed at first by how agile the front end became and the rear end just followed it and stayed planted during quick lane changes.

I was worried about the 30mm being too harsh (that was all that was avialible at the time), but in reality they are just fine, in fact I am glad I didn't go with my original plan of 28's or 29's. Having a heavier Carrera may be why the 30mm work so well. Over really rough road with pits and lips I can tell that it is a stiffer ride now but still not overly harsh.

Now I may get upgraded sway-bars to dial it in a little bit more once I get used to the new feel. I am not sure what if any upgrades beyond this I may do or need to do to the suspension.


--bill

What was the ballpark cost of the mods? Parts/labor? I am thinking of doing the same things to my '88 coupe. If you would rather keep it private, PM me. Thanks!

[bmgmd]

Those are great upgrades.

I have almost the same (except for particular brands), and just recently put in a Weltmeister strut brace. I couldn't believe how tight is was afterwards.

Have you thought about bigger rubber (951 8s' in the front w/225s and 8/9 in rear with 245)?

Have fun with the better cornering abilities!

[Elombard]

Thats alot of stiff for a targa. I suppose the later Targas are stiffer. Did you see the article in excellence last month about the high miles Targa with suspension like yours?

[qlander]

Great mods. I'm looking to do something similar to my turbo cab.

Can you also pm me an idea of cost? My wrench estimate seemed a little high.

Q.

[TheMentat]

Originally posted by rfuerst911sc
That's the same size T bars I had installed a few weeks ago and I agree with your feelings on the big improvement.

+1

did mine a little over a week ago.... t-bars, Bilstein sports & Polybronze all 'round. Huge improvement all around. The stiffer rear rfrom the 30s really helps to reduce understeer at turn in.

[MysticLlama]

I drove the car a bit this weekend and it handles much better than it used to. Also better than my SC which is about 300lbs or so lighter.

I don't have all new suspension yet, but it's on my list. Probably 22/29 and sports all around. I think I'm going to go with the WEVO SPS in the back too.

[skinnerd]

Many times what makes the ride harsh is not the torsion bars, but the shocks. Standard Sport Bilstein gas shocks are a good example. Out of the box, they are just too stiff to allow your suspension to keep up with what's happening on the ground beneath them. Re-valving them will almost always yield a much nicer (but still firm and controlled) ride....without the harshness or jarring.

[MysticAlpaca]

Lots of good comments. I was thinking about re-valving at some point in the future.

I will have to look for the article in Excellence, hope its still on the news stands. Maybe someone has a PDF? What was the gist of the article?

I am looking at 8' or 9's on the wheels, when a good deal presents itself I will probably go for it. I think moving my 7's to the front and getting 8's in the rear may be a good plan.

Cost is a little skewed because I royally screwed up and bought a 29mm pre 87' rear T Bar. Speedware spent a couple of hours until they determined it was the wrong T Bar. That's when I checked my invoice and realized my error.

I was really annoyed...

In the parts list the look almost the same and I had 29mm on the brain. Also the box looks correct too in how it reads. Anyway, all I could get at that point in a hurry was 30mm (boy am I glad).

The good news is that Mystic Llama now has a 29mm for his SC...lol.

So labor of the install of front and rear T Bars, the removal and replacement of the spring-plate bushings (a good portion of labor) my screw up that cost me about 2 to 3 hours labor, corner balance, lower and align came to about $1500 in shop costs. Parts were bought there at pelican so you can look those up, I used the solid sway away bars and neatrix bushings.

Speedware quoted me about 10 hours labor in a worse case scenario...which I created with the wrong part and then some. So I ended up spending a bit more than planned.

I asked John Walker if 10 hours was unreasonable for that kind of a job and he seemed to think it was about right but that there were a lot of variables that could effect it.

So I just figured on a worse case scenario and got what I planned for...but im still happy with the results and how Speedware was very professional during the whole thing and worked with me as my car stayed in their shop for almost two weeks.

[Elombard]

The bad news is this guy could literally not keep the doors closed at the track because the body was flexing so much. His is an extreme example, but you should read it. You might want to consider switching to a coupe if your interests take you to track mods. Either that or add a roll cage.

Slippery slope :-)

[Nine9six]

Originally posted by Elombard
Thats alot of stiff for a targa. I suppose the later Targas are stiffer. Did you see the article in excellence last month about the high miles Targa with suspension like yours?

Snatched the thoughts right outta my head.

[MysticAlpaca]

hmmm...interesting. So far the car seems to be holding up pretty good and I had it over some pretty rough road over the weekend in downtown Seattle.

The previous upgrades have been on for several months and have held up to several local drives with no incident.

I will keep an eye in it. I did install those Targa brace bars about a year ago, but I never really felt any difference at the time, maybe with all the other upgrades they just become an incremental part of the process to stiffening up the car.

I drive a Mini Cooper S daily and have always felt the 911 seemed sloppy in comparison. That might seem like an unfair comparison since the 911 is almost 20 years old but it doesn't change the fact that it seemed lacking in the suspension. I can say with out a doubt that now the car is a whole new car in how it feels, drives, and handles.