Electromotive Help Please

Laneco · 06-10-2006, 06:30 PM

Okay - getting stuck here and need a little help. We have the naughty little short stroke 3.2 in the spyder with PMO carbs and electromotive twin-plug crank fire ignition. Using the electromotive sensor held with the clewett bracket (nice little bracket).

Have spent hours with little/no spark. When we have spark its only momentary (alternating green/red on the electromotive box). Then no spark whatsover with green light on stationary. When the lights are properly alternating, SPARK is present and the engine tries valiantly to start (then the spark disappears)...

The manual states 620 ohms across the sensor. We have 560 measured with TWO seperate Fluke meters.

The sensor is reading .025 volts when cranking. The electromotive manual does not show a needed voltage level. Does anyone know what is needed?

All grounds good, triple checked, dispswitchs checked, all wiring verified, ohmed and correct voltage to DFU's etc.

Guys - this is making me NUTZ

And you don't want to see an angry red haired woman in a garage loaded with power tools...

angela

Steve@Rennsport · 06-10-2006, 06:38 PM

Angela:

You're right,...certainly nobody wishes to witness an angry red-haired woman with power OR hand tools,...

These are pretty darned reliable and simple systems. As long as the pickup sensor and its wiring/connector is in perfect shape and the sensor-to-trigger wheel gap is around .010-.015, it should start.

The panel needs 11.8-14.0 VDC to function and they do draw some current. Make sure your supply voltage provides that when cranking,....

Laneco · 06-10-2006, 09:15 PM

Thanks Steve! The gap for the sensors has been adjusted several times from ten thousands to fifteen thousands and actually even a little under and over that with no changes. Steve (my poor suffering husband) after reading your post went out and tried it one more time. The unit itself has a very solid 13.2 volts and has very good voltage under cranking...

And nada outta the sensor. You know I'm pretty sure I've seen a sensor that looked just like this on a commercial truck ABS system... Hmm....

We also did a search on this site and have gone so far as to pull grounds to battery ground not just chassis ground (no go) and switched the wires on the sensor as per a recent post some of the sensors came with the wiring accidently crosssed (no go).

I'll call Electromotive on Monday, but the people on this site have a giant collection of knowledge and have already "gone down that road" ahead of us...

Must say, its going to be real hard to pass up taking this car for a drive tomorrow. 550 replica with a nicely built 3.2 twin-plug oh fun fun fun... Steve says I have no patience, which is why he did the wiring (well patience for one, and two he is an Electrician).

angela

Steve@Rennsport · 06-10-2006, 11:40 PM

I've had my share of bad sensors with these and I've purchased MSD ones and modified them to suit.

FWIW, the best source of assistance/parts is Richard Clewitt, not Electromotive.

Indeed, the weather IS improving,.....

Call Richard and have him send you another sensor so you can get out and enjoy that car.

dean · 06-11-2006, 03:30 AM

Most likely it is a bad sensor. They are junk. I have had 2 fail on my car now. The only Electromotive thing on my car and it has failed twice, leaving me stranded. I think Moroso might also make a sensor that has to be better than the POS Electromotive sensor.

WERK I · WERK I's Garage

When you talk to Richard Clewett, ask for the 1/2" crank sensor and mount, the 3/8" units have a short life span.

Laneco · 06-12-2006, 07:31 AM

Steve (my husband not Steve/Rennsport) talked with Electromotive tech this morning and the sensor is DOA. As soon as Richard @ Clewett gets in this morning I'll confirm with him and order a part. I do have the 1/2" mount.

Anyway - for you Electromotive owners: The sensor should read 620 ohms MINIMUM. When the engine is hot, 800 's are the normal readings. Below 620 cold is DEFECTIVE.

Ours is 560.

Thought I'd throw in a gratuituos engine pic. Excluse the loose ignition wiring - we had it fully assembled, then took it all apart for troubleshooting as we were just positive we had screwed something up. Good news/bad news - we did OK, but now have to wait for the sensor to show up....

angela

WERK I · WERK I's Garage

Nice work!

Joeaksa · 06-12-2006, 08:00 AM

Looks very nice. Bet you are really ready to have it running!

Laneco · 06-12-2006, 08:07 AM

Oh you have NO idea... This car was extremely entertaining with the carbureted but otherwise stock 3.0 liter.

Now 3.2, C-2 sport cams, 10.2, twin plug, and intakes opened to 38 (from what, 32? on a 82 sc engine?)....

Should be more fun than a barrel of drunken monkeys. Suspect I'll be real glad this has a limited slip.

angela

WERK I · WERK I's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Laneco
Thought I'd throw in a gratuituos engine pic. Excluse the loose ignition wiring - we had it fully assembled, then took it all apart for troubleshooting as we were just positive we had screwed something up. Good news/bad news - we did OK, but now have to wait for the sensor to show up....

angela

Angela,
I was admiring your pic and noticed the rotors. Do you have them oriented correctly? It looks like you have the left rear rotor on the right side. Maybe its the angle of the photo, but I thought I would ask.

Laneco · 06-12-2006, 08:27 AM

Uhhh, they're directional? Really? Beanz! Which way determines correct orientation?

angela

Jeff Alton · 06-12-2006, 08:42 AM

It depends if they have directional vanes or not. DO NOT just use the drilled hole pattern as a guide. Alot of rotors have vanes inside that are straight, meaning you can mount on either side. Check the part number, see if they are the same or if there is infact a left or right one.

Cheers

WERK I · WERK I's Garage

Here is a pic of a right rear rotor. The internal vanes mentioned should follow the hole pattern shown if they are the factory rotors.

Laneco · 06-12-2006, 09:14 AM

The vanes are straight up/down. They do NOT follow the hole pattern. These are aftermarket rotors.

Oh, incidently - spoke with Richard @ Clewett (GREAT guy!). He stated that about two years ago Electromotive changed makers for the sensors. Prior to that time, they were failing regularly. Newer sensors have proven to be extremely reliable.

Richard stated that the most common cause of failure with the newer sensors is overtightening the mount (which would be my fault if it proves to be the case as I put it on....). It shorts out the windings inside the sensor. Other than that, they are basically bomb proof.

And the new one arrives tomorrow morning.

angela

Paul Thomas · 06-12-2006, 02:20 PM

I used to have Electromotive and when it failed to start intermittantly, I tried three different sensors before Richard C. helped me figure out that i had wired the Twin Electromotive HPV-1 boxes through the ignition switch.

It worked like that for over 5 years before the switch just wouldnt handle the current while cranking anymore. I ran a dedicated 10 gauge wire from the battery to a relay and voila!

Paul

Laneco · 06-13-2006, 10:08 AM

Okay - HUGE thank you to Richard Clewett! We now have SPARK. Also have fabulous flames shooting out of the tops of the carbs trying to light my hair on fire but that is not the subject here.

Want to know what was wrong? We are using a high-torque gear reduction starter. Per Richard Clewett, these give off an enormous amount of eletrical noise. The noise interfers with the signal from the sensor. Even the new sensor did not work. Routing the sensor wire through the passenger compartment (as far from the starter as possible) did not help either.

Per Richard I installed a 1/4 watt 1k ohm resister inline and wa-hoo - we have ignition! The part is available from radio shack, 5 for 99 cents.

20 cents to fix my car. Well, of course now I have to deal with the rather exciting flame issue (i'll start w/timing).

angela

Joeaksa · 06-13-2006, 10:11 AM

Angela,

Great news. Now retard the timing and try again!

Joe A

sand_man · 06-13-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laneco
Okay - HUGE thank you to Richard Clewett! We now have SPARK. Also have fabulous flames shooting out of the tops of the carbs trying to light my hair on fire but that is not the subject here.

Want to know what was wrong? We are using a high-torque gear reduction starter. Per Richard Clewett, these give off an enormous amount of eletrical noise. The noise interfers with the signal from the sensor. Even the new sensor did not work. Routing the sensor wire through the passenger compartment (as far from the starter as possible) did not help either.

Per Richard I installed a 1/4 watt 1k ohm resister inline and wa-hoo - we have ignition! The part is available from radio shack, 5 for 99 cents.

20 cents to fix my car. Well, of course now I have to deal with the rather exciting flame issue (i'll start w/timing).

angela

Good news! That resistor trick was the final thing that Clewett wanted me to try right before he asked me to switch the red and black sensor wires on my ECU. Luckily I didn't need the resistor, but I was prepared! HAHAHA!

Laneco · 06-13-2006, 12:32 PM

WWWHOOOHOOO!!! Fire in the hole baby!!!

This little monster RUNS!!! And boy did it startle me when it started up - apparently the throttle linkage was a wee bit tight, it coughed once and then just BELLOWED to life! Scared me so bad I shut it down and investigaged/corrected.

This engine runs smooth, no leaks, no drips (most excellent job Kevin Farrell - injection labs). After cool down I'll check the oil filter (oberg style - screen), tie up a few loose ends and then go terrorize the neighborhood!

angela (the very happy wench w/the wrench)