EPA on Zn, S and P in Engine Oil

[randywebb]

Anything EPA issues will be published in the Federal Register - it is a huge thing but can be searched at the EPA web site.

proudness, means proud, i.e. height is greater than the surrounding material -- old woodworking term that must be several thousand years old

[LubeMaster77]

Originally posted by donstevens
Lube Master, I rarely disagree with you but on this issue I must. As you know I am an Amsoil fan and most of their oils have higher levels of Zn and P than API limits. They claim that the oil "Exceeds API SL and CI-4" specifications. They explain some myths here: http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/articlemyths.aspx.

They do happen to have a couple of products that are API certified but most products are designed with slight higher levels of Zn and P .

Don

I am never one to back down froma good ol fashion pizz'n match but I will stand corrected to some extent yet not here. As far as the API is concerned, they do state the min/max levels of:

- Sulfur (S), GF-4: 0.5 max for 0W and 5W multigrades and 0.7 max for 10W multigrades. A sulfur limit of 0.5 max applies to API SM SAE 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, and 5W-30 oils and 0.7 max to API SM SAE 10W-30 oils.

- Phosphorus (P), GF-4: 0.08 max/0.06 min; GF-3: 0.10 max. Phosphorus limits of 0.08 max and 0.06 min apply to API SM SAE 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 oils. A phosphorus limit of 0.10 max applies to API SJ SAE 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 oils and API SL SAE 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 oils. A limit of 0.12 max applies to API SH SAE 5W-30 and 10W-30 oils (SH must be preceded by a “C” category). If CF-4, CG-4, CH-4 and/or CI-4 categories precede SM or SL and there is no API Certification Mark, the limit for phosphorus does not apply.

They do not state the limits for Zn or Mo or anything else but the API does require the analytical concentration results.

How about we split the diff and call it a draw?

[randywebb]

Maybe theY were API at one time but not another?

How about a good ol' fashioned pizza 'n beer match?
- I will offer to test both beforehand to make sure they are not spoiled.

[donstevens]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77


How about we split the diff and call it a draw?

OK -

Actually, I was not arguing your point nor the accuarcy of your data. All I was saying was that Amsoil "claims" their non-API certified oils that contain higher than max levels of Zn and P "exceed" API SL ratings. They cannot and do not display the API starburst on the label but they do have a little thing that kind of looks like it.

Don

[LubeMaster77]

Don - Ok, but that "Star Burst" that looks like an API seal is dancing on a prrreeeettttttyyy fine line.

[randywebb]

Wonder if API knows?

... infringement

[donstevens]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Don - Ok, but that "Star Burst" that looks like an API seal is dancing on a prrreeeettttttyyy fine line.

You bet it is...but I guess they either know what they are doing or are willing to take their chances.

Take a look at the photo in this link:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aro.aspx

They are pretty crafty with their wording which is why some people shun them as snake oil producers. But, the products do perform and they have been fighting off naysayers for 34 years. There is lots of used oil analysis data out there that prove the product is the real deal.

Don

[quattrorunner]

How can I get some of the amsoil? I don't want to order online and have it shipped but will do if I have to. Can't I just go somewhere and grab it off the shelf, take it to the counter and givem a hundred?

[donstevens]

Amsoil is sold is some retail shops but becuase of the MLM marketing program the Walmarts and Autozones of the world cannot sell it. It is sold in some locally owned Napa franchise stores and Carquest stores. You might find it listed in the yellow pages.

Vegas happens to be one of 11 cities in the states where Amsoil has a distribution center. It is not sold retail through these centers but those with proper "credentials" can buy small quanities off the shelf. Your favorite Amsoil dealer can arrange to get you the proper credentials.

Don

[scottb]

(reviving an old thread)

Lubemaster: Do you have a recommendation at this point for oil in our cars?

Scott

[livi]

That was my question too:

Mike, what oil ?? For darn sake: WHAT OIL ??

All these oil threads make my head spin. I can´t take it anymore!!

[HarryD]

Of course you can join the discussion here, Ultimate Oil Thread

[livi]

I did and now my few remaining brain cells are smoked.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by livi

I did and now my few remaining brain cells are smoked.

I think you have a few left...

Bottom line, CJ4/SM is not a good spec for our older cars. Find something with that meets and earlier spec (SG or SL) and you will be ok. Common suggestions include Brad Penn, Swepco, ELF, some of the Mobil 1's, Shell Rimula, etc. Look at the labels.

confusing, you bet and that is why I started the "ultimate" thread. There is a lot of good info there.

To my way of thinking, people like Steve Weiner and Chuck have seen more engines that I ever will. I exepct them to have good filed data to support the reasearch. I, with only a sample of one engine, cannot afford to make a mistake as it will wipe out 100% of my sample.

[livi]

Thanks, Harry. One problem I have is that I am not sure the oil sold in Europe has the same properties as that sold in US. Also it seems very difficult to get the specific info on P and Zn contents in different oils.

[HarryD]

Livi,

I presume the bottles show the API Ratings. If it was me, I would just avoid any that include API SM or CJ-4.

[wesayso]

Originally Posted by livi

Thanks, Harry. One problem I have is that I am not sure the oil sold in Europe has the same properties as that sold in US. Also it seems very difficult to get the specific info on P and Zn contents in different oils.

Hi there Livi,

I'm in the Netherlands and ordered Swepco locally from http://www.stratson.nl/. I found them trough Google. I figured if it's good stuff there must be someone selling it over here. I'm sure you can get the good oils up north too .
I suspect I could have bought the stuff cheaper online from Charles or Pelican at the current dollar/euro rates but wasn't sure about importing issues.

[safe]

Markus, Swepco is availible in Sweden too, at least the 201 gear lube.

[livi]

Good points guys, thanks!

Yes, Magnus, I have found the 201 for the transmission via that guy up north, but I don´t know if he carries other oils too. What do you use ?

[safe]

After reading the oil threads I was thinking I would check with Stig if he has the 306. I'm going to order some 201 of him anyways.
Last year I ran OKQ8 10w40 semi synthetic oil out of convinience, I use that in my Audi and in my fathers Opel, I buy it cheep in 20 liters.