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Lightbulb Anyone have 928 21mm spacers on a 911?



Just picked these up for a try. Anybody have experience with them in a 911?

They are very lightweight compared to adapters and will need longer studs. The diameter fits a 911 rear hub and its 5 x 130.

The PN on it is 477 501 701; Pelican doesn't have pics but apparently it is a Genuine Porsche Wheel Spacer, 21mm, 928 (1983-86).


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Old 06-23-2006, 07:55 PM
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I have those *exact* ones on the rear of my 911...work perfectly..no issues...no vibration..snug fit...nice.

In my case, used these to push out 7" Fuchs to mimic 8". Used 66-67 mm studs instead of factory 45 mm.

Used RoyB's tutorial as an install guide---> Wheel Stud replacement...A pictoral..

Wil
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Last edited by Wil Ferch; 06-24-2006 at 01:38 PM..
Old 06-24-2006, 01:30 PM
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Thanks for the reply, Wil. I have 65mm studs and will need RoyB's tutorial.

These are very light compared to 1" adapters (at least a 2 lb difference EACH), and am very happy that I stumbled onto them.

They will help push my 8" to mimic 9".

I'm not sure why these aren't used more for 911s. I thought I'd see a lot more people chiming in that they use it.

Brian
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Old 06-24-2006, 04:10 PM
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I'd be careful....

First, here is Bill Verburg's excellent rim fitment , backspace/offset chart for various Fuchs -->
http://members.rennlist.com/1976c38/index.html

Basically, a 911 8" Fuchs places all of its extra 1" width ( compared to a 7" Fuchs) toward the outside of the car, relative to the original mounting hub. Therefore , when I added a 21mm spacer with my 7" Fuchs.... it was just shy of the 1" ( 25.4mm) extra width that a 8" Fuchs ( w/o spacer) would have done for me. It means I could have gone another 4 mm to "exactly" place the outside edge of the rim like a 8" Fuchs would .

However, you're starting off with a 8" Fuchs. By comparison, a 9" Fuchs ( w/o spacer on the original mounting hub) would place * it's * extra 1" of width the following way... an extra 10 mm toward the outside...and an extra 15mm toward the inside. Not all 25 mm is toward the outside !

So..... when you add a 21 mm spacer, the outside edge of the 8" Fuchs will be 11 mm MORE ( 21mm- 10mm= 11 mm) pushed to the outside than what you'd have with a 9" ( w/o spacer) !

Be VERY CAREFUL and see if you have the space to do this. The specific TIRE will become very important, since the 9" is about as wide as you can go ( with different offset/backspace...some custom 9.5" have been used in the rear...but that is beyond this discussion).

-Wil
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Old 06-24-2006, 07:21 PM
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Wil, thanks very much for the RoyB link. Looks pretty simple to replace standard studs to longer ones.
Old 07-07-2006, 05:36 PM
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I have 9"s and 17mm spacers on my car - so as long as you have 245/45 tires, you should have plenty of room on the outside...
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:07 PM
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This is in my opinion a much superior method than bolting on spacers. Some sanction bodies look poorly on the bolt on's because you can't visualize the second set of nuts. That is beyond the obvious weight penalty.

Just remember that replacing the rear studs if going "long" will require some "while your in there" maintenance. The rear bearings don't look fondly on this and should be replaced if the rear hub gets removed. Turbos used slide on spacers as most of you know and I can't think of any OEM bolt on spacers
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:40 PM
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Luke:

I agree 100% with the slip on spacers ( aka "Spacers") being better than bolt-on spacers ( aka "Adaptors")....

However, look how a front hub is mounted on a 911...also has an extra set of recessed 5 nuts....no? I've posted before and never got an answer...why isn't this "bad" here ?????

Cantdrv55 --> yes, the RoyB tutorial was very good. Caveat-> make SURE you've pulled the studs ALL the way in. If there is as much as a 0.5 mm air gap under the head of the new stud, that is like 1/3 turn of a nut. You DON'T want a wheel to get loose !!!

- Wil


EDIT:
From my 6/24 posting I warn of 9" clearance issues. For the life of me, looking at what I have now ( 225's on 7" Fuchs with 21 mm spacer)...I can't see how in the world someone can fit a 245 on 9" Fuchs with a 17mm spacer. Unless there is a ton of neg camber and maybe "solid" springs. Not just this poster but many others say it "can" be done...but I honestly can't see how without tearing the outside of the rim apart. Might be nice to know "which" 245's as some 225's measure out wider than some 245's ( ! )....yep, check the specific-brand tire specs.

So...a 17 mm spacer would result in a 9" Fuchs having its outside edge 27mm further "out" than a 8" Fuchs ( w/o spacer)...and it would be whopping 52 mm more "out" than a 7" w/o spacer. It would also be 31mm further "out" than my current set-up of 7" Fuchs WITH a 21mm spacer. I simply DO NOT see that kind of clearance available !!!!
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Last edited by Wil Ferch; 07-13-2006 at 09:03 AM..
Old 07-08-2006, 06:51 AM
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I use 930 rear spacers on my car for track wheels. I also used RoyB's great tech article. Be aware of the long stud issue. I chose the 75mm studs and they're tough to get in there. I had to bend the parking brake backing plate a bit to get mine in there. So stick with the 67mm studs.

As far as the fitment? With my 930 spacers (which incidentally are 29mm and not 1 inch = 25mm spacers as some people claim) I can put a Fuchs 7 on the rear no problem with plenty of clearance. Looks good as far as outboard location of the wheel relative to the fender. But putting a wheel that far outboard with not enough tire width (IMO) looks a little odd. If I put a Fuchs 16x8 (+11mm o/s) on the back, it's sticking much too far outboard for my tastes and I think clearance would be an issue with fresh 245/45 tires. I have well worn 225/50 Yoko ES100's from track use (shoulders are trashed) that don't look like they'd clear well even with my stock alignment settings back there. More aggressive alignment and fender lip shaving/rolling would probably clear but I don't think it's worth it.

So the wheel I use with the 930 29mm spacers is a somewhat rare one. It's a 16x8 BBS RS wheel that came off a 930 front and has a +28mm o/s- typical o/s for the 930 application is +23mm. I actually intended to use these 8's on the front of my car with matching 9's on the rear. But one of the 9's is cracked so I decided to see what I could do to make the 8's fit the rear while I work on getting the 9 fixed.

So like I said, these 930 spacers don't work with regular Fuchs 16x8 and therefore what I use is H&R 14mm spacers. These are very nice spacers by the way- hubcentric, anodized, include the new studs (which I didn't know). The fitment on the rear of my car is very good and mimics what a Fuchs 9 would look like. For 16x8 911/930 rears, i'd recommend going with a size like 1/2 inch (I think H&R makes 14mm and 15mm) and no larger. I feel mine stick out just about as far as i'd like to see them. So i'll have to agree with Wil that i'm surprised Jeremy gets his 9's on the back with 17mm spacers. It's got to be pretty tight.
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:10 AM
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If you simply draw a scale model of the wheel/spacer combo on a sheet of graph paper ( maybe even super-imposing all the combos together), it hits you in the eyes much more so than simply stating numbers....

I can't see how it's done.....

- Wil
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Old 07-08-2006, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wil Ferch
I can't see how it's done.....

- Wil
It is what it is

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Old 07-10-2006, 05:07 AM
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Visually..... my 7" Fuchs with 225/50-16's on 21mm spacers..... stick out *exactly* that amount....judging from the black welting between the rocker and upper portion of the rear quarter of the car.....and the amount of tire that extends above the level of the welting...almost IDENTICAL.

I still don't understand how a 9" with 17mm spacer AND 245's can look the same as a 7" with 21mm spacer and 225's .... ??????

- Wil
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Old 07-10-2006, 06:26 AM
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see here for pic comparison on a 8" with 25 mm spacer....that resulted in problems-->

Follow up pictorial to my posts (1" spacers/adapters)

- Wil
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Old 07-10-2006, 06:25 PM
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OK - Check that - not 17mm try 12mm spacers. My bad

Front before spacers


Spacer Size


Profile after the Spacer


It's a little high from being on the jack.
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Old 07-12-2006, 05:46 PM
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A 9" Fuchs with 12mm spacer places the outside edge equal to a 8" Fuchs with 22 mm ( ! ) spacer. Close to what a 21mm spacer would do...being discussed here.

I'd be interested to know if Jeremy can similarly confirm if the rear Fuchs he has is 9" and what tire size he runs in the back. It looks like an ES100 Yoke..... 225 or 245?

- Wil
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Last edited by Wil Ferch; 07-13-2006 at 08:07 AM..
Old 07-12-2006, 07:21 PM
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245/45/16 Yokohama AVS Sports and yes a 9" fuch 911.362.119.00

Tread width of 8.7 inches - section width of 9.7 inches
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Old 07-12-2006, 07:27 PM
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I'm running 225/50-16 Bridgestone SO-2's..with the relative wide ( for the size) dimensions of :

- section width.... 9.2" ( spec given- as measured on a 7" rim), only 1/2" less than Yok's 245's ...even though 245 vs 225 implies nearly 0.75-1.0" wider.

tread width of 8.5" ( vs. 8.7" on Yok's)...almost the same, even though my tire is 225 and not a 245......

I also believe the Yok's specs are given assuming an 8" rim...which puts my 225 on an even closer footing on "real" size...

- Wil
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:24 AM
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From all this data ( just from this post and the embedded links alone), we can come up with some pretty interesting "facts"....all dependent however on "specific" tire sizes ( and shoulder shape...square vs round) amount of camber being run, and amount of fender lip rolling done.

Outside edge "vertical plane" locations/equivalents:

7"Fuchs = base
8" Fuchs = 7"Fuchs + 25mm
9" Fuchs = 8"Fuchs + 10 mm
9" Fuchs = 7"Fuchs + 35 mm

Also, from the link:
8"Fuchs + 25mm spacer = "not good"

From Jeremy:
9" Fuchs + 12 mm spacer = "good"

So let's see if we can substitute equivalent values and see if this all hangs together...OK?

8" Fuchs + 25 mm spacer = not good ---> this is the same as saying ( 9"Fuchs-10mm) + 25mm = not good....or..

..9" Fuchs + 15 mm spacer is "not good"
Jeremy says 9" Fuchs + 12 mm spacer = "good".

So HERE we define the very NARROW window of opportunity, somewhere between 12mm and 15mm spacers on a 9" rim. Let's say the practical limit is 12 mm spacer with 9"Fuchs based upon all this.

So....9" Fuchs+12 mm spacer = OK
that means 8" + 22mm spacer = OK ( limit)
that means 7" + 47mm spacer = OK ( limit)

This also implies my spacer of 21mm could be increased by 26mm ( say 1") to get to this limit for my 7" Fuchs case. Frankly, looking at Jeremy's pics and my own car which looks IDENTICAL to Jeremy's pics...I still can't see that although numbers don't lie.....

Hmm......

-Wil
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Last edited by Wil Ferch; 07-14-2006 at 09:14 AM..
Old 07-13-2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
that means 8" + 22mm = OK ( limit)
I hope the numbers don't lie... just got my impact wrench and will be doing this with 8" + 21mm as per RoyB's tutorial link in a couple of weeks.

Will post pics after it is done.

Thanks again, Wil, for your dedicated attention to detail. It will help others in the future!

Brian
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:10 PM
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Let us know how this goes...Brian...

- Wil
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:14 AM
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