eBAY DEALER FRAUD w/ PROOF!!(long)

[kaisen]

PLEASE VIEW THE LINKS BEFORE THEY DISAPPEAR!

I am so pissed!

Many of you know that I have been searching for a 911. I look all the same places you do: eBay, here, Rennlist, AutoTrader, etc.

A few days ago I called on a car in Florida listed in AutoTrader. 1987 911 Carrera with 173,609 miles, but only $12000 asking price. The private seller turned out to be a really nice guy, a fellow enthusiast, and very honest and candid about the car. He owned the car since 1989 and had every receipt documenting its care, including an upper-end rebuild at 102K ($5400). He was even upfront enough to tell me about a couple boo-boos that required a body shop, and tell me what the car may need (A/C inop due to incorrect replacement fan w/ wrong pulley). He emailed me some pics, and the car was gorgeous. Really.

Nice guy, nice car, nice price.

THE AUTOTRADER AD (173K mi):

Monday night, someone else bought it. He was nice enough to email and tell me:

FYI, a guy from Lauderdale came by my house last night with a stack of $100s and drove off with a 1987 carrera. Good luck with your search!

That would be the end of the story: my woes for missing a great car, lesson learned.

READ ON......

I continued my search. Came home tonight (Thursday) and pulled up all the new additions to eBay. A couple were of interest. One was a 1987 Carrera, Black on Black, with only 76K miles. With a Buy-It-Now of $17995. As the images loaded, I noticed the same pedestrian Michelins.... the same Alpine stereo.... the same disconnected A/C belt..... could it be?

The VIN proved it.... THE SAME CAR! But now with only 76k miles!?

THE eBAY AD (76K mi):

So how does this happen? I understand that our VDO mechanical odometers are infamously easy to roll back. This car was a prime candidate having a 'last odometer statement' from 1989. CarFax may not pick up on it. Also, Florida treats 'old' cars as exempt from odometer statements. The guy that buys this car may have no recourse when he/she finds out the fraudulent truth.

And the stacks of receipts lovingly kept all those years by the second owner....... that 'proof' is surely in a dumpster somewhere. Like nails on a chalkboard to fellow Porsche enthusiasts.

I know A LOT of car dealers that work hard to make an honest living, and this type of activity infuriates them too. This guy bought the car Monday night, cleans it, and lists it on eBay Thursday. No value add there, I'm guessing. He paid no more than $12000 for the car Monday, and has a Buy-It-Now of $17900. Not bad. I'm all for a dealer making profit. This is America and it's a free market economy. But profit by fraud?

The eBay seller's alias is cars4U2312 and he has 100% positive feedback over 270 transactions. How many others are fraudulent? I just imagine him paying untraceable cash to buy cars from private parties (auctions and dealers have to transfer titles and odo statements) where they have owned it for a long time (low odo statement), but have put on higher miles. Then he rolls to odo, and sells it for quick money.

I feel violated, even though nothing 'happened' to me.
Buyer beware. Caveat Emptor. We're all suckers.

I don't know what more to say or do.... I'm pissed

PLEASE COMMENT! I NEED THE SUPPORT OF THE COMMUNITY
How do you feel?

E

[speeder]

Take action! Call or email the seller that you were dealing w/ and ask what he thinks of this, also confirm who exactly he sold it to. Contact ebay, or better yet the DMV and local authorities where he is selling from, this could be fun!

[LakeCleElum]

If I was you. I would write everything down you know (Including the name/address/ph of the PO) and mail it to 3 places:
1) Law Enforcement of the city where he does business
2) Flordia State Police
3) Flordia DMV......

With the other cars he has listed, they can rain on his parade and trace the history of every vehicle he has listed.....Please follow thru...Bob S.

[KevinP73]

I'd drop a dime to CarFax also to see if they might be interested. Also e-mail the seller through e-bay and ask him directly why the mileage has changed. He might be stupid enough to respond to you.

[strupgolf]

That sucks!!!! i didnt know that the mileage that shows now could be changed back to the mileage from 89, without anyone ? knowing. I guess if its owned by one person for that many years, the miles could be anything. Carfax wouldnt show at all. Oh well, there are others out there, so keep yours eys out for a better one.

[speeder]

I just sent him a nice email asking why he is such a scumbag, I'll let you know if he responds.

Carfax is pretty good in general; it records whenever a car comes in contact w/ a govt. agency such as emission tests, title transfers, etc.. If Fla. doesn't have testing and car was one owner for a long time, it could escape detection I guess.

That car looks pretty clean, in the old days before Carfax that was known as a "clocker's delight" , custom made for odometer fraud.

[kaisen]

I emailed the gentleman who sold the car as soon as I found out, well before posting on this board.

I'll probably hear from him tomorrow as it is his work email.
I'm sure he'll be shocked. I would guess he will want to take some sort of action on his own.

If not, I might.... but I feel a little weird as I am not directly involved. I certainly have all the proof. We'll see.

Another guy said I should 'use' this as leverage to have the eBay dealer sell me the car cheap....kinda sounds like extortion. NO WAY. Never. Agree?

E

[wholberg]

Send copies of the auto trader ad, the EBay ad, and your history with this car, as described above, including the contact information of the previous owner to http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp , which is a Federal reporting site for internet fraud, and cc: the email contact link at EBay. If EBay is true to their policies, the auction will get pulled and the seller banned from EBay.

If you are really lucky, the EBay seller might even get some jail time!

If not, as least you will feel better because you tried to do the right thing.

[speeder]

Originally posted by kaisen


Another guy said I should 'use' this as leverage to have the eBay dealer sell me the car cheap....kinda sounds like extortion. NO WAY. Never. Agree?

E

Yes, that would be illegal and you would be a party to the fraud indirectly. A better plan is to report the hemoroid to the authorties, (email them the exact post that you strated this with), and ask the police nicely if you can have first shot at the confiscated car before it goes to auction for your good work reporting a fraud.

[speeder]

Originally posted by wholberg
Send copies of the auto trader ad, the EBay ad, and your history with this car, as described above, including the contact information of the previous owner to http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp , which is a Federal reporting site for internet fraud, and cc: the email contact link at EBay. If EBay is true to their policies, the auction will get pulled and the seller banned from EBay.

If you are really lucky, the EBay seller might even get some jail time!

If not, as least you will feel better because you tried to do the right thing.

Excellent advice!! I wonder if the seller even is aware how much more serious it is to commit theft by fraud across state lines using the internet than just selling on the street. He must be a real genius.

Funny, but this is an example of how the relative anonymity of the web allows people to commit fraud, but also how the power of the web is BUSTING his ass so completely and quickly!!

[NOH20]

My wife reported a seller on e-bay that was shilling, E-bay banned the seller. Contact e-bay and let them know what is going on, they will take care of this.

[trader220]

I just sent him an eamil and said if the car checks out okay I'd buy it now. ( of course I wont ) trying to get him to send me an email confirming the roll back. I'll keep you posted.

[KevinP73]

If you log onto e-bay they offer the chance to speak to a Car Professional Live. I just told them about this listing and provided a link to the AutoTrader Ad. He said he'd notify the appropriate parties.

[biosurfer1]

The following types of fraud and material misrepresentation are covered only if they result in a devaluation of the vehicle of at least 50% of the vehicle's purchase price:
Paying for and receiving a vehicle:
with a model year that is different than the model year described in the seller's listing;
with an odometer reading that is different than the odometer reading described in the seller's listing, on vehicles 20 years old or younger (see below);

from ebays web site protection, and this car was covered by it, so anyone who buys it is covered against odometer fraud, BUT only if it devalues the car by 50% or more, how can they justify any type of odometer rollback not fraud!

[KevinP73]

He has an 800 number in his ad, maybe we should ALL start calling.

[sammyg2]

Aint no way you can touch this guy,
him: "oh, I'm sorry, that was a simple typo. I left off the 1".
End of story.

[84porsche]

I just saw this on the 2nd seller's website - UNDER FLORIDA LAW, VEHICLES OVER TEN YEARS OLD SOLD ODOMETER EXEMPT. - I wonder what law this refers to.

[dmt-n-jax]

Has anyone asked the seller to confirm the mileage, maybe it was a typo???
Has anyone ran a carfax to see what mileage records carfax has documented?
If the seller truly rolled the odometer back 100k miles since purchased and represents the car as having 76k miles that would be fraud in my book.
Sure looked like a nice car for 12K.............

[LakeCleElum]

84Porsche: "Car over 10 years old sold odometer exempt"....
In my state that means that cars over 10 yrs old don't have to have the mileage listed on the title at the time of transfer.....In no way gets anyone off the hook......

If this $hithead has brain one, he sends an "associate" with cash to buy this car and then later claims he was also a victim of the fraud.

What ticks me off, if the photo was taken in front of his home, he's proving that crime can pay FOR AWHILE....

[skijaker]

Nice how he kept the bidders IDs private. That way you can't get in touch with them to let them know the story....I guess the dumb ass isn't quite as dumb.

I just sent him an email about this. Why don't we all just give him a gingle and see if he responds.