Audio guys: Critique my proposed install

rdrr · 03-24-2011, 09:55 PM

Hi guys,

I'm looking at upgrading my car's audio. It is currently completely non stock, with an old '90s Panasonic head unit, Alpine coax speakers in the doors, and Eclipse coax speakers in the rear. No amp or sub. It has never been a great sounding system and lacks bass especially. I get very annoyed with it and on long drives just turn it off. Makes highway driving and traffic very boring.

I thought about just getting a new head unit with bluetooth and Ipod streaming, but decided to get some advice from an installer. He spent 2 minutes listening to my old system and pronounced it to be very mediocre (not his words) and then proposed the following system:

1. Nakamichi CD-400 head unit
2. Polk Audio MM461p Rear speaker plates
3. Polk Audio DB6501 front splits
4. Parrot MKi9200 for bluetooth phone/audio streaming & ipod integration

I would prefer to stay away from additional amps and a sub, as I don't want the weight or the clutter. With an amp, he would recommend ADS speakers instead.

I have listened to the Nakamichi in one of his customers cars, as well as his sound room and was completely impressed. Even without the sub, the bass response from the Polks seemed really good, at least to my ears. The Nak head unit also looks great in my opinion.

What do the experts here think? Please critique!

lateapex911 · 03-24-2011, 10:25 PM

He sounds old school! I like that.
Nak has always made great units. I used to sell them, and the CD 400 is still in production!? Wow.
Polks are good. And ADS's used to be the schnizzle. I thought they had folded.

One general comment i'll make: the 911 is a tough place to get good sound. The rear deck volume is bad for bass reinforcement. And don't cut holes into the engine compartment! The doors are...sadly..are your best shot for decent bass. On top of that, the car is noisy, and between the roadnoise and engine note, bass will be canceled. It might sound great sitting still, but, once moving, it's another story.

So, You'll need SUPER efficient speakers, or an amp.

Of course, it's hard to say what will please YOU. And while it might sound great on his board or in his car, your car at speed is an entirely different deal.
But, I'd try this in a modular approach. Perhaps start by designing a system with a sub and amp, but leaving those components out at first. Then add later if you need. I did that for customers in the past and it was good to know going in so plans and allowances could be made. Saved time and money down the road, since there was no real re-doing of things.

Gogar · 03-24-2011, 10:29 PM

In my opinion,

He's trying to sell you the Nakamichi. it's a nice box, but you can get similar quality for much less money. I recently put a Kenwood head unit in my car for about $270 and it had AM/FM, CD, USB for iPod, and Bluetooth phone +bluetooth audio, and it sounds very nice. And, I LOVE that it connects to my phone when I step in the car and I can listen to my phone iPod, Pandora, or iHeartRadio from my phone wirelessly.

Remember, in a 911 you're dealing with a lot of road noise, so the subtlety and nuance you hear between headunit / speaker brands in the store is going to be completely lost once you get over 50 mph. You need reasonable power and reasonable quality, so if you can get great FUNCTION at the same price point I think that's the winner.

I'd look at the slightly cheaper head units that provide the most function and a good amount of power. Stay away from the cheapo brands of course.

As far as a sub goes, look at the small sub/amp combos maybe. I did the $250 Kenwood sub under the driver's seat, and there's no cutting/drilling involved, and it provides a reasonable amount of low end, and (what's more important to me) takes some of the pressure off of your door speakers if you cross them over, and they don't work so hard.

PS I just noticed you're in a Carrera, so sub 'under the driver's seat' is not for you.

rdrr · 03-24-2011, 10:40 PM

Haha, yeah, he is definitely old school. We talked about MP3 head units, but he is dead set against them. In his opinion the Nak units with MP3 are a real backward step in quality.

ADS was apparently acquired by Orion. Still great speakers, but according to him need an amp to sound good.

The modular approach sounds like a great idea, and we had that in mind when discussing the sub. I'll talk to him about amps as well - haven't done that yet.

With the sub, he was suggesting cutting a hole in the trunk, but I'm not happy about cutting holes. So we discussed a self-contained sub box, either a Blaupunkt, or another one that I cannot remember. The Blaupunkt was nice and small, so it could easily fit in the trunk without eating too much space. Also, the Nak can run a sub without an amp, so it would be an easy add-on.

rdrr · 03-24-2011, 10:43 PM

Thanks Gogar,
Indeed I would much prefer a fully integrated head unit with bluetooth, ipod, etc. I hate clutter and the parrot does add a few things to the cabin.
Which model Kenwood do you have?

lateapex911 · 03-24-2011, 11:05 PM

Two great things about the Nak. It looks good in an old school car, not flashy and blingy with stupid graphics chasing around, and it sounds killer.

Most MP3s DO sound worse then most CDs of the same songs. Now, will you hear the difference in the 911? Most people won't.

Also, in general most subs take REAL power to drive. I'd be skeptical that any head unit could drive one convincingly. Especially one in the front compartment. The bass has a bunch of metal to travel thru. If you never take rear seat passengers, there are solutions that can fit on the floor back there.

(My 911 still has the old school a/d/s 300i plates in the back and the doors and a double 7" sub ducted into the interior, and 3 old school Nakamichi PA 700 amps driving them, along with some crossover and equalization networks. The 300is are huge overachievers when it comes to bass. But even they really need the help of subs in a 911.

Fishcop · Fishcop's Garage

Quality noise cancelling headphones and an iPod?

WPOZZZ · 03-25-2011, 12:28 AM

This is what I would suggest. The Nak is a great unit as are Polk speakers, but go to other shops and listen to different setups. Keep in mind, the speakers sound much better in the display setups than it will in your car. Find a nice unit that you would like in your car (I prefer something not flashy and that is hard to find) and some good sounding speakers to go in your doors.

Then, watch/search Pelican classifieds for some Zbox or other custom boxes for the rear deck.

Porsche 911 · 03-25-2011, 01:37 AM

-Don't get a HU that's too "flashy"
-Nakamichi cd-400 would've looked great in my car's interior, no doubt - hard to find a simple, understated, classy looking stereo nowadays.
-However, unless you're ok with carrying a ton of CDs around in the 911, I'd get a HU with a USB hub. Just got mine about a month ago and it saves SO much space - just plug a flash drive (mine's only 1 GB) and it holds hundred/thousands of songs. Less clutter than even an iPod, which requires a little cable to hook up to the HU.

Personally I wouldn't bother with a subwoofer & amp - takes too much space. I skipped the blue tooth for the same reason. I got the Porsche 911 to drive fast, not for the sound system design/fancy gizmo gadgets. For the Carrera I'd simply focus on function, quality and value instead of going over the top as far as music.

rdrr · 03-25-2011, 02:09 AM

John, I've been doing the headphones in the '76 for the last few years. Every ounce counted in the track car! Not real keen on it for daily driving in the Carrera though...

I definitely want the system to look stock in terms of door and rear deck speakers, and I need functional rear seats for the kids - so no sub boxes in the passenger area for me!

I hate flashy HUs, that's why I like the NAK. The parrot offers all the MP3, Ipod, bluetooth integration that you could want, but it does mean extra gadgets in the car. I had a look at the Kenwood KDC-X8016BT and it actually looks pretty cool.

What do you guys think?

nineball · 07:22 AM

alpine makes a nice amp alternative that works with any 2005+ model. most headunits have 14-20rms per channel output and the alpine power pack doubles that to 45rms per channel. it is small and very easy to install.

Alpine KTP-445 Power Pack Upgrade your Alpine receiver to 45 watts RMS x 4 at Crutchfield.com

i agree with the above posters in that you should get an all-in-one unit for ease of installation, and most likely cheaper too. i have a kenwood x993 in one of my cars and absolutely love it - cd, usb and bt (phone and streaming) all in one (btw, parrot, who makes the best bt on the market, makes all the bt setups for kenwood).

mp3 quality is only as good as you make it. if you record at a lower bitrate it will not sound as good. i encode all of mine at 320 or use apple lossless, depending on where it will be stored (usb drive or my iphone). unless you are spending several grand on equipment, which you aren't, there will be almost no sq lost on a quality mp3 vs a cd. in a perfect setup in a perfect world the cd would sound better but we are talking about a 911 that will have tons of inherent noise to begin with. i'll give $1000 to anyone who can sit in my 911 and tell me if it is an mp3 i encoded or cd playing solely by ear.

no matter which speakers you choose do not expect a lot of low end response without some form of a sub. even a single 8" will make a world of difference in an install. you can easily mount it in the rear footwells or in the smugglers box. both examples have been posted on here so with a little searching you can get all sorts of ideas.

i have a self-pronounced audio addiction so i went way beyond what most people do but this thread should at least give you something interesting to read. i did not cut a single part of the car other than one small hole in the rear seat pan for the mounting bolt.

new audio install

willtel · 03-25-2011, 07:46 AM

Here is my suggestion.

Pick a nice head unit that has the features you need.

Put the largest drivers you possibly can in the doors. 6.5" works well without being too painful to install, specifically look into Aura MR62s. These have long been out of production but they are still easy to find new or lightly used. They work especially well in 911s because they have tiny neodymium magnets and the tweeter is mounted on a bridge over the woofer so they drop right in the door with a tiny baffle for support.

IMG_7914 by willtel, on Flickr

IMG_7919 by willtel, on Flickr

Skip rear speakers, unnecessary IMO.

Put a small amp on the 6.5" speakers to get the most you can out of them. I know you said you preferred not to have an amp but some of the new stuff is so small they are a breeze to install. For instance this one is only 5-1/4"D x 8-1/4"W x 2"H and would supply 90 watts to each door. A 4-channel is only slightly larger and could also power a small sub if you wanted to add one later.
VIBE Audio LiteBox Stereo 2 (LiteBox2) 2-Channel Amplifier

rouxroux · 03-25-2011, 07:50 AM

Did someone say "old-school Nakamichi"?

Gogar · 03-25-2011, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdrr

I hate flashy HUs, that's why I like the NAK. The parrot offers all the MP3, Ipod, bluetooth integration that you could want, but it does mean extra gadgets in the car. I had a look at the Kenwood KDC-X8016BT and it actually looks pretty cool.

What do you guys think?

rdrr,

That IS the one I have in my car, and as I mentioned; I enjoy it quite a bit. It also does have an 'understated' look as far as LCD head units go. Maybe I can get a pic later.

nineball · 03-25-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar

rdrr,

That IS the one I have in my car, and as I mentioned; I enjoy it quite a bit. It also does have an 'understated' look as far as LCD head units go. Maybe I can get a pic later.

are you sure? the x8016bt was never released in the us. it is essentially the same thing as the x994 which was.

nineball · 03-25-2011, 09:37 AM

x993 was the 2009 model, x994 was 2010 and the new one is the x995. all basically the same model with changes to the face. good unit, i run the x993 in my dd and love it.

this is the x993. the screen is customizable (lines, display type) as well as colors (3 zones - face, upper trim, lower trim)

Gogar · 03-25-2011, 09:38 AM

I checked, it's KDC-BT945U.

Seems like it's basically identical to the x8016, maybe no Pandora link, but I just listen to the Pandora off of my phone, and through the BT streaming.

nineball · 09:45 AM

ya, that is the same as the x994/x8016 with the exception of the ability to change colors, a parametric eq and support for the iphone 4/4.0 OS. to be honest it probably works just fine with the iphone 4/4.0 OS since my x993 does as well. still a nice quality model.

lateapex911 · 03-25-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rouxroux

Did someone say "old-school Nakamichi"?

Is that a TD1200!? With the separate tuner box? That required a #6 interground connection to avoid whine and ground loops? LOL....those were the days. I installed a few of those....is that your car? Whats the rest of the set up?

rouxroux · 03-25-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lateapex911

Is that a TD1200!? With the separate tuner box? That required a #6 interground connection to avoid whine and ground loops? LOL....those were the days. I installed a few of those....is that your car? Whats the rest of the set up?

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Yep, that is the "Dragon for the car"...I also sold/installed Naks back in the early 80's. That one was in my wife's '86. It has since been replaced with a "modern" CD/mp3/ipod compat. unit. Speakers still are A/D/S plates in the rear, A/D/S mids/tweets up front. (The "drawer" on the Nak would really make some people do a double take "in the day").