Is this idea just too stupid?

Doug&Julie · 07-12-2006, 05:24 PM

OK, I'm home alone (while Julie is at class) and thinking about my Porsche situation. I'm having trouble selling my old T for what I want (let's face it, because it's unoriginal...and brown) and now I've got a '78 SC Targa that I would love to backdate. But in order to do that, I'll have to buy many parts, including front fenders, etc...right? (I'd like to keep it steel for ease of finish and crash protection). What if....and don't shoot me because I'm just thinking out loud here...I used my '70 as a "donor" car for parts to backdate the '78? Keep in mind my '70 has some nice touches, but mostly because I've spent money to make it that way (new trim, new seats, etc.) So the money I spent on the '70 wouldn't "go to waste" if I use the parts again on the '78. Plus I would have factory parts for quality fit.

The downside to this plan, of course, is at the end, I'm going to have a little bit more than a shell of a 1970 911 that will need to be sold. I figured I'd sell the motor and trans separately, but since my '78 is a Targa, there isn't much from the windsheild back that could be taken from the '70.

The biggest obstacle to this is that I still owe money on the '70. But considering what I'd spend to get parts for the backdate, and what I could sell other parts from the '70 for, I think I'd "break even" on this deal. But there's no guarantee there.

So what do you guys think? Would this be a good use of resources? ..or am I just being rediculous? Does anybody know how much good steel front early fenders are going for these days? What's the market like for "project" cars these days? (..cars that are missing half the parts?)

Again, just thinking out loud here. Nothing has been done and nothing will be done w/o giving it some significant thought. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Non sunroof, right? I'd want a tub minus fender parts for a ST project anyway - How do the floors look?

Gearbox · 05:59 PM

Sell both cars and buy an early 911S, which is what I assume you want. Stripping the 70 to retro a 78 is just plain, well, economically unfeasible. You will lose all value in the 70 and lower the 78 to almost unsellable. It won't be original and you will limit the market appeal to maybe one or two people out there. I'm also curious that you said you have no interest in the 70 since it's not original. Well the 78 won't be either. So what are we doing here? BTW I'm looking for an early 911 70-74 to convert into an RS so I would be interested in your T if you want to sell. Thanks Allan

TRE Cup · TRE Cup's Garage

how about a mini iroc look for your SC ? maybe not the flavor of the early long hood, but sure more affordable to do, and easy to reverse if you elect to sell
see serving suggestions

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

He's selling it gearbox..

Rick V · 07-12-2006, 06:01 PM

I just have a problem with taking a good car and making a "doner" out of it. If the car was crashed that would be another story.

Doug&Julie · 07-12-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick V
I just have a problem with taking a good car and making a "doner" out of it. If the car was crashed that would be another story.

That's one of my biggest hang-ups. Although, my '70 has been repainted, has an unoriginal motor and trans, and has had rust repair. The car is good now, but it would take a lot to bring it back to it's original specifications and condition.

I actually got it as a partial trade, thinking I'd make my own little hot rod out of it. But frankly I miss driving one on a more regular basis. So when the SC came up for sale, I saw an opportunity to get a car more like what I wanted originally and one I could drive more regularly, but still give me some of that "911 feel". I admit my desire to backdate is largely because...well, I just think longhoods are cool. And backdating is cheaper than "updating" the mechanicals of an early car to match an SC or 3.2 Carrera.

Doug&Julie · 07-12-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TRE Cup
how about a mini iroc look for your SC ? maybe not the flavor of the early long hood, but sure more affordable to do, and easy to reverse if you elect to sell...

Those are all pretty cool! I think if I don't backdate, I'll probabl go with RUF style front and rear bumpers. I think Bill V has a very clean looking Targa like that.

...and IF I decide to backdate this car, it'll be a keeper for sure. My dream garage is to have an orignal SWB hot rod, a backdated SC or 3.2 Carrera (maybe with a 3.6?), a new(ish) Boxster S, and a new(ish) 911 or Cayman S as a daily driver. Actually, that's not my dream garage, it's my goal garage. My dream garage is filled with CGTs, GT3s, 2.7 RSs, early Ss...and on and on.

Briana · 07-12-2006, 06:20 PM

I'd sell the 70 and buy Damon's (series900) backdate kit for the 78.

Doug&Julie · 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gearbox
Sell both cars and buy an early 911S, which is what I assume you want.

Actually, what I want is a longhood I feel comfortable enough to drive every day. FI is a big part of that...even CIS. So is a galvanized chassis. Maybe even air conditioning.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gearbox
Stripping the 70 to retro a 78 is just plain, well, economically unfeasible. You will lose all value in the 70 and lower the 78 to almost unsellable. It won't be original and you will limit the market appeal to maybe one or two people out there.

I'm aware of the loss of value to the '70, but I'll disagree about losing value to the SC. I think a well done backdate will be worth the same, if not more, than a stock SC. It would certainly be worth more than what I paid for mine!

Quote:

Originally posted by Gearbox
I'm also curious that you said you have no interest in the 70 since it's not original. Well the 78 won't be either. So what are we doing here?

I have interest in my '70...but it's been for sale now for a few months and, while I'm getting fairly regular inquiries, there's something that turns the potential buyers off. I think part of what I'm doing here is getting a true feel for what my '70 is "worth"...which must not be a lot. But I have time and money invested in it, so I'm trying to figure a way to get some of that back, other than just selling it to the "highest bidder".

As I mentioned above, if I backdate the '78, I won't sell it. I don't care that it won't be original. I certainly appreciate original cars, and I'm aware of their value (esp. the older ones), but I'm a designer and like the idea of my Porsches being "special"...so I rarely keep them original. I'm not convinced that completely original SCs are going to be worth a ton like the early Ss. Not in my lifetime...

Doug&Julie · 07-12-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Briana
I'd sell the 70 and buy Damon's (series900) backdate kit for the 78.

I'm trying!

Damon's kit is pretty cool. My only dislike is the idea that you can't fill in the gaps between the bolt on front fender extenders with fill and paint. If I backdate, I won't be coming back, so I don't need bolt-on kits. But I like his hood solution, etc.

TRE Cup · TRE Cup's Garage

"moses" targa looks way cool with its ruf style bumpers f/r

TRE Cup · TRE Cup's Garage

2nd try

Doug&Julie · 07-12-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JeremyD
Non sunroof, right? I'd want a tub minus fender parts for a ST project anyway - How do the floors look?

For the record...yes, non sunroof car. Floors are good. Front trunk has had rust repair by the P.O. There are two small holes in the rear deck between the engine compartment and the interior (from a rear window leak), but they've been cleaned and POR'd and aren't a problem at this time. Otherwise the car is rust free. It would make a great starter for an R Gruppe or RS style project. (I was going to go for a narrow bodied hot-rod, like an early "T-Rallye" or something.)

Doug&Julie · 07-12-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TRE Cup
2nd try

Oh yeah, that's really nice. Wonder what that would look like in white....???

Zeke · 07-12-2006, 06:49 PM

Ir you owe money on it, I'd keep up the effort to sell. The economy is very soft for a lot of us, but some folks haven't got the message yet and are still spending money, even borrowing money to buy old cars, (I'm not taking a shot a you, I've done it, too.) But, that's one of the reasons the Ragamuffin is gone. I wasn't about to enter this new version of what they call a recession (I've got other names for it, believe me) owing money on an old car or anything else like credit cards. I know what happened last time. Sell it.

I'll bet the value of early 911's tanks pretty soon with the exception of the really nice ones. They will always have a market. Junk is junk. So what is your car? Nice, or average. Lot of competion for average cars.

Doug&Julie · 07-12-2006, 06:56 PM

Milt, my car is average/good with some nice touches (like a new interior). So yeah, I'll have to be more competitive in pricing I guess.

FWIW I didn't borrow a lot of money for either car...and if the '70 sells, I may be able to pay off the SC very quickly. Part of the reason for doing this is to have a car free and clear for our eventual move to Portland, OR (sometime in '08).

Well, Julie's home...off to bed!

slotcar · 07-12-2006, 07:06 PM

Doug, since you've asked for opinions....I'll offer. I think you should sell the 70, if the Targa has the creature comforts (and mechanicals) you enjoy. Sell the 70, pay off what you owe...and you'll be in better shape in the long run to make your new targa what you want...and you'll sleep better at night. Never put in what you can't afford to lose...

Make sure you bring your cars to P20...hopefully you'll catch a buyer.

sammyg2 · 07-12-2006, 08:36 PM

Yes, that idea is crazy.
I'm gonna shoot from the hip here and not mince words, please don't take offense at my straight-forwardness:

Backdating an SC does not make any sense in my book.
What is wrong with the 70, other than the color? If you really want an long hood, fix up the 70 even if you have to steal parts off the SC to do it. Or sell the Sc and put the money into the 70, even if it means waiting for the right buyer or lowering the price.
If you really want an SC instead of a 70, leave the darn thing alone!

Why modify an SC to make it look like a car you already have?

I like SCs, but if I didn't and wanted a long hood i would sell the SC and BUY long hood, not try and make the car something it isn't.
You already have a long hood but are trying to sell it so it obviously isn't what you want, but you want to make the SC look like a longhood?
Got my head spinning.

MotoSook · 09:27 PM

Sell the 70, Doug. Good early fenders come along now and then. I got mine at a good price, and they only required a little time with the welder.

Here is a set...maybe a tad high..but you might be able to bargain.

WTS: 1969 Fenders and Hood

Sell the 70 and take your time collecting parts....while enjoying the new ride.