Another Warning about Bill Mason AKA Mason Motorsports

Hi all
A sad day today. Attached is the threads of messages I sent to Rennlist. BEWARE him. He sold me a 2.5L 911 race motor that was supposedly freshly rebuilt and in great shape. It is a worthless core motor with 80% leakdown. I've attached all correspondence here.

-Dave

Bill,

I am very very disappointed in you. Here are the leakdown figures for the motor you sold me. Not only is this motor NOT what you said it was, but it is unserviceable.

CYL Leakdown Leaking from
1 80% Exhaust
2 70% Intake
3 90% Exhaust
4 30% Intake
5 60% Rings
6 80% Intake

Remember that you wrote:
Hi, The moter is in great shape, leakdown is very good. The motor
is not to race, but it will go to 9000rpm. It is a complete moter, carbs and
all. All you need is your exhaust. I will help ship. I nead $4500.00
for it.

I now call for a complete return of this motor, and a refund of my $3300.00 Anything less will result in very drastic measures, including but not limited to Lawsuit, IRS referral, PCA notification, etc. I await your reply.


-----Original Message-----
From: Avery, David
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 5:17 PM
To: '914@rennlist.org'
Subject: [911] Vendor advisory: Porsche746@aol.com AKA Bill Mason AKA Mason Motorsports: Warning LONG

Hello all

I want to warn the list about a "vendor" named Bill Mason, from Avon CT. I
bought an engine he had for sale, listed on eBay, in person in December. I
had asked him repeatedly for receipts, or at least information as to the
"rebuild" of the motor, as per our deal. These polite reminders were met
with uneven temper, and dismissal. I now suspect that the engine is not
what I was told it was, and fear that it may be ill-gotten or defective.
Bill isn't necessarily any more unscrupulous than he is a bad businessman,
however, I suspect that after I tear this supposedly "well running" motor
apart, I may learn otherwise.

Here are the message threads...

** on 12/30 I wrote:
>>
Hi there

I'm interested in the motor, and I'm local. How well does it run? Do you
have a leakdown, receipts, etc? Also, are there Leaks, etc. Is it a 2.2
built up, or a 2.4? How "race" is it (cam profiles, etc.)
And lastly, I see it is a reserve auction... I was wondering how far off it
is. Reserves are tough... If I am interested, I should take a look at it,
and bid $25.00 at a time until I reach your reserve...

Thanks,
David
<<

He replied with
>>
Hi, The moter is in great shape, leakdown is very good. The motor is not to
race, but it will go to 9000rpm. It is a complete moter, carbs and all.
All you need is your exhaust. I will help ship. I nead $4500.00 for it.
Thank you Bill Mason MASON MOTOR SPORTS
<<

After the bidding, his reserve was not met. I received this email on
1/3/00:
>>
If you want the motor i will sell it for $2000.00 with out the webers.
Thank you Bill Mason "MASON MOTOR SPORTS"
<<

After this, I bought the motor, for $3300 with Weber 40IDA's. Not a bad
deal, I think. The transaction went smoothly, and I paid cash. I requested
some receipts, which he did not bring. I then sent this message:

>>
Hey Bill
Thanks again for the smooth transaction. I gave the engine some thought....
did you say 12:1 compression? (or was it 10:1, and I heard incorrectly)?
That's REAL high... almost too high for a street motor.
If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to speak with the person that built it.... I
have some internals questions. Let me know.
Thanks,
DMA

P.S. I'll get you a parts list for items I'm looking for soon.
<<

I never heard back... I was concerned, also because I was about to buy
approx. $2000 worth of parts from him. I then sent this message on 1/26/00:
>>
Hi Bill

I sent a few emails, but perhaps you didn't receive them.

As I mentioned to you, it was extremely important for me to either (A) speak
to your builder of the engine I purchased or (B) see some receipts, as I had
requested. I am about to ship the motor for installation, and do not want
to be surprised.

As I also mentioned, I will be needing additional parts, and if I cannot be
reasonably secure in our original transaction, I will not purchase anything
additional from you, nor be the basis of any "favorable" recommendations.

Please respond to me ASAP with your thoughts on these matters.
<<

His reply is below, sent 2/2/00:
<<
You bought the motor AS IS. I will no longer sell you any parts because of
the problems that I have had with you. Its not worth my time to have a
customer like you.
Thank you Bill Mason
>>

My reply and challenge to him, also sent 2/2/00:
>>
Excuse me, but what "problems" are you referring to? Asking for receipts
that you said you'd provide? Sending email after email, asking politely for
information you said you'd retrieve? Waiting weeks for a simple email
response?

Bill, I really do not understand your hostility. I said I needed parts, and
also politely asked for backup information to keep me from having to tear
the motor down before sending it to California for installation. If this is
your idea of customer service, you will find the world a very unfriendly
place.

I've been in business for myself for over 10 years, and customer service is
the only thing that can differentiate you from anyone else. I feel that the
requests I made of you were fair and timely.

Frankly, I have to wonder what went wrong... I was prepared to buy perhaps
$1200 more parts from your firm. I merely asked for substantive information
to further back the details of the engine I bought.

I extend to you one more opportunity to make this right... All I am asking
for is some receipt detail, or at least the name of your engine builder to
confirm it's compression ratio and viability. I expect a reply by end of
day Friday of this week, either a fax of said receipts to 860.571.8586, or
an email making other arrangements.

David M. Avery
>>

Sooo.... this is where it sits. Sounds kind of fishy... I send this as a
warning to you listers, and perhaps to evoke some type of debate on his
part. I am puzzled as to the cause of his hostility... If he is trying to
run a business, this is a bad, bad way to start one.

-David

David,

Sorry to hear about your problem, but based on other people having the same problem with this individual. My suggestion is to get all of the others people that have been slighted and sue him. It sounds as though this is a clear pattern, so he shouldn't be hard to find.

One problem, is that if you buy a product "AS IS" with no implied warranties, you might be out of luck. They might shift the oweness back to you as a form of due diligence. I hope this is not the case, but you should, as should everyone else, post information on this individual wherever you can.

Good luck with your situation and sorry to hear it happened.

Best Regards,

Marc Weintraub

True Marc, thanks for your reply.

Although Bill says "AS IS" in his post, he also said that he stands behind it as Bill Mason Motorsports in person.

Hiding behind "as-is" after blatantly and deliberatly misrepresenting an item is what I am angry about. Imagine if everyone could make up a story about the hidden worth of something they own and sell it for twice it's value, only to stand back and wave an as-is flag after the fact.

The truth is, I have come to trust other regional PCA members, and I thought I could trust Bill. I was very, very wrong.

-David

Gentlemen:

As the Romans once said "Caveat Emptor". It seems that this will be the problem with all "no eyes" sales, whether on the InterNet or even in response to ads in Pano and Excellence. One really should look at the object one is buying.

However, to help all of us on this Porsche merry-go-round, I think this Forum and others like it are the absolutely best way to deseminate information, and keep the "bad" guys from hurting us "good" guys. It is too bad that some rotten apples can spoil our trust and respect.

So do keep such information coming onto this site, and perhaps some of us in the future will be spared your unfortunate experiences.

In the meantime, I say again "Caveat Emptor" and hope that in the future you can get a trusted friends or acquaintance to inspect something prior to plunking down hard-earned cash. "We feel your pain".....Andras

Based on the info you have provided, I think you have a strong claim against the seller. It appears to me that he did NOT sell the engine "as-is." To the contrary, he made at least a few representations about the engine, including that it is "in great shape" and "leakdown is good." You can't make these representations, and *after the fact* state that the sale was "as-is." It seems easy to prove, by documents and testimony of the the person who did the tests for you, that the representations were false.

Also, if I were buying an engine, I would never give the seller any significant amount of $ until AFTER the engine tests out ok and the seller has delivered to me everything that he said he would (documentation, parts, etc.) If the seller isn't willing to do the deal this way, I would walk away.

.

I would

I agree with Brian. I just finished express and implied warranties in my Contracts class last fall, taught by the pre-eminent Contracts professor in the country (Dr. John E. Murray). (Brian, do you know of Dr. Murray?)

I think it is safe to say that the seller made enough express representations that you will have success in your claim.

You would be wise to document all of your correspondence, email, dates/times of conversations, etc.

Brian is correct, of course, in that after-the-fact waivers of any warranty representations are not operative in any way. You and he are bound by the terms of the deal prior to consumation, and not afterward.

The specific characteristics he mentioned are the crux. For example, just saying the motor is "good", or calling a used car a "creampuff" is too ambiguous and subjective to qualify as warrantable. But, I think the express representations that the seller made to you, the leakdown characteristics-for example, benefit you and your claim.

Good luck!

Dave

David,

As for getting records about the sale...E-bay should still have a record of what he posted for the engine. If you still have the reference number of the ad...then you can get what he put up on E-bay. I am guessing that "angry" is not just what you feel. We all know how much we would like to take the person that just screwed us into a back alley and.....

Anwayys, hopefully you kept the e-mail's that the two of you had between each other. Hmm...not much else to give as far as documents...but you might want to write down now exactly what went on between the two of you so you can keep it fresh in your mind.

It is completely dishearteningto be screwed and we all probably wish that we could lend a helping hand. Most of the people that do buy/sell Porsche parts and are individuals are VERY HONEST. Like there is some kind of understanding. There are a few...who don't respect others...actually more than anyone would like to admit.
Anyways, I hope everything comes out in your favor.


Paul

Dave,

It sounds from these posts that this guy has a definite track record. One thing with "AS IS" - it only gets him around implied warranties of sale. It does not, however, get him around any express warranties, which he certainly made when he represented the engine's condition. This is particularly true if he's in the business of selling engines or car parts. With the e-mail documentation you have, this seems like a slam dunk claim of breach of warranty and misrepresentation. It's unfortunate that people like that are out there - it'd sure be nice to hear about him getting his come-uppance.

Lee

Wow thanks guys... You made my day. I will probably try to pool with the other slighted person (jabb on this bbs) and pool our resources to do whatever it takes.

Thanks again,

David

For those who may have missed it there was a reply from Bill Mason on the Parts for sale board.

For Porsche746
Junior Member posted 02-18-2000 03:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you all need to know my side of what this guy Davery is saying. He did buy a motor from me. But I sold it "as is". I even told him he could have his mechanic look the thing over. I even told him it had been sitting for a long time "over two years". I told him I used it in my 914-6 race car and I did beat on this thing, I reved this motor to over 9000 RPM. I just want every one to know that Im not some ASS HOLE that just took this guy. Im 23 years old and I have had my 914-6 since I was 17 years old. I feal bad but he has all ready told me that he has taken the whole motor apart. So he will not be getting his money back. Your Info here's what he wrote.

My reply copied here... just to keep the thread centralized:

I did NOT take the engine apart. I performed an external leak down test. Joe A. is the person that took his apart. I would like to return it for a refund then, if this is the sole criteria you have chosen to stiff me on.
Oh, and Joe A (Jabb on this list) has THE EXACT same problem as me. You claimed a 2.5L race motor to him as well. What he got was a 2.0l with over 90K miles. What I got was a POS stock 2.4L motor that COULD NOT HAVE been in a 914 based upon the oil lines that are siezed on it, and were hastily "cut" off.

Bill, honestly, you are about to get served unless you can do better than this. You stated that it was a running motor... You never said you "beat" on it. You gave your "WORD" as Bill Mason motorsports that this motor was in good running condition, and that you "stood behind it". You never offered to have my mechanic look at it. It was a pressure sale, as it was allegedly about to be sold to another person in Oregon.

Expect a registered letter from my attorney, and probably Joe's as well unless you allow the full REFUND of this transaction. I have extended many, many opportunities for you to make this right. I have no reason not to fight for myself here.

-David

Latest development, as if this fire needs more petrol.

This car is NOT a 2.5 as promised, but a 2.4 stripped from a junkyard. My mechanic buddy is none other than Dan Jacobs, former head mechanic of Danbury Porsche-Audi, and the CT Valley Technical and track safety chair. This guy KNOWS porsches. He noted that the cases have NOT been split, and a view with an endoscope reveals stock pistons, NOT the "J&E 12:1" pistons promised. He also noted that 12:1 would melt an engine without dual plugs.

I recently dug up the ebay description. Here it is

**********************
Porsche 2.5L race motor. Has webber carborators K and N air filters. The motor was built new four years ago. I ran it for the first two and now it has sat for two. When I built the motor we upgraded to Carrera Pressure-Fed Chain Tensioners. It has J and E Race pistons. The crank was totally redone, the bearings are one under. Pleanty of hours left on this motor. Must sell, I am buying a house and already have a 3.2 liter. The reserve is set low. Bidder to pay 25% deposit 3 days upon sale. Rest of sale price within 7 business days. Seller will deliver anywhere in New England. Other then that, you are required to deal with shipping. Thank you. You can Email me at Porsche746@aol.com
*************************

Hi Dave,

In my total disgust over your situation I wanted to make one suggestion. Please go back to EBAY and do a search for other people that have bought product from this individual and contact them to see what their respective experiences were.

It appears as he has already established a method of operation, but this could solidify your case. I hope that you get everything that you deserve and I certainly hope he gets everything that is coming to him.

Best Of Luck,

Marc Weintraub

Sounds like this is a predatory scumbag who has done this many times .I wouldn't give this guy anymore chances ,he has clearly showed his intentions ,don't telegraph your intentions ,hopefully you paid with a check or other record so you will have a reciept with his bank account no. so you can get a temp restraining order and freeze his assets

Id send a registered letter immediatley for your demand and either file in small claims court which in my state you can sue up tp 6000.00 or retain a attorney ,you may be able to get punitive damages also .
This is how he probably makes his living refer him to the IRS also

I spoke to Bill several times where he guaranteed the motor was not a 2.0 but a 2.4.
I told him my suspicions after I started to prep the motor, but he still affirmed that the motor was not a 2.0. I have this conversation on tape, and the funny part is I informed Bill that he was being recorded so it is a legal tape of the conversation. I was left no alternative by Bill but to remove a head to measure the bore to verify what the motor was. It turned out to be a 2.0 and not a 2.4 like I suspected. Once I confronted him on my findings he no longer wanted to talk to me any longer. This has happened to 2 different people I would say this is a con and definitely shows a pattern that is not not good.
Joe A