How much for a good 71-73 911???

I am somewhat new at the Porsche game (HiPo VW nut). I would love to buy a nice clean 71-73 911 in the next couple years. I am not looking for a show car, but want something rust free that I can be proud of and gradually fix up and learn on. I am a good paint and body man, and can do most of the mechanicals. What would be the best model to buy? How much should I plan on spending for a clean (not perfect) 911. I want something that I can drive while I fix it up, not a complete resto. I know this is kinda vague...can anyone shoot me a ballpark figure? Thanks, Dave

Interesting question, since in the years that you states Porsche had the 911 "T", "E", "S", and RS. The "T" is the least expensive and the most common, with the RS being the rarest and most expensive. Nice versions of the "E" and "S" cars are available for 8k and up. If you can find a nice "S" car that needs very little work for under 10k it could be a great car and the "S" market is starting to climb. You should use this websites checklist to go over any car that you buy and make sure that if you go for an "E" or "S" model that the numbers match. 1972 is a key year for these cars collectively because the oil tank was moved just behind the passenger door (only year for this feature in early cars), changing the weight distribution of the car. Look for cars with a lot of options... a/c, lsd, pw, sr, etc. Good luck with your search.

Thanks for the tips, is the 72 preferred because of its uniqueness, or should I avoid it? Do you think that an early 911 is a good choice for a novice Porsche guy with a lot of VW experience? Is the performance difference that great between the "S" car and the lesser models of the same year? I have about 175 HP in my 67 beetle, so I dont want to be dissapointed with the power output. Of course it will be nice to be able to corner too =). Thanks for your tips! Dave

I personally would stick with a 72 or a 73, for a variety of reasons, including the 2.4. I also think the build quality on the 72 and 73 is among the best in Porsche history. They are the end of the line of the small bumper cars, and are the best and most developed of those cars, I think.

The 72 has the fender gas tank, which I guess is kinda neat, but not that big of a deal to me. I kind of like the 73 because its the end of the line, and because of some minor trim differences.

Which model to get is a bit more involved. I think a lot has to do with what you expect out of the car. I prefer a car that has fuel injection, as opposed to carbs. I've always thought that the 73.5 911 T is kind of a neat car, because it has the simple CIS injection system. That seems like a really nice car for a daily driver. I have driven most of the other models, and have mixed feelings. A good friend of mine had a very, very nice 73 711S Targa. He never drove the car because it had a very heavy clutch, was very peaky, and never ran quite right, with flat spots and some surging throughout the RPM range (despite a new engine, new injection pump, etc.). It was very fast, but just not really a flexible street car. I'm sure others have had other, better experiences, though.

I think the E is a nice mix of the T and the S, and for some reason seems to be easier to get running right than the S. I think of all the cars, I'd like a 73 E coupe, followed closely by a 73.5 T coupe, for a daily driver. For weekend fun, I'd take a 73 S coupe!

Brian

Brian is right on all counts, but I loved my 72"S". Due to where the oil tank was placed, the car handled a bit better and it was unique. The gearing was also taller giving it less poke at low RPM's, but it could cruise all day at very high speeds. The 72"S" also had a factory front oil cooler, which the 73"S" did not have unless factory air was installed. With regard to the 73"S"... that is what I drive normally and the "S", as Brian had stated, is a peaky runner. The "S" engines come on-cam much later than the "T" or "E" engines, but they can be made to run extremely well throughout the RPM range if you are patient with their tuning. The 73"S" has more poke around town because the final drive (gearing) was changed to allow for better accelleration. The "E" is still an easier car to drive around town because of where it develops peak power. I had a 72"E" targa for years and it was just a wonderful car. It does, however, have the same exact MFI (mechanical fuel injection) system as the "S", except the diameter of the stacks is different and distributers are different. The "S" comes with sway bars and more elaborate instrumentation unless the original owner of the "T" or "E" bought the car with the "S" option kit. The "S" series will normally be worth more than either the "T" or "E", but the "E" is a wonderful car... rarer than any "T", but not quite as rare as the "S". I would stick to the 72-73 model year, but the 1970 coupe was one of the lightest, just tipping the scale at just over 2000lbs. A very workable car, if power to weight ratios mean anything to you. Good luck with your search.

Thanks for all the good info guys! =) Dave

As set forth in Ludvigsen's huge book, the '72 911 is an interesting car, and the re-located oil tank is symbolic of the very good times at Porsche during that era. It was apparently a very profitable time for Porsche, and money was not really an object. The oil tank re-location cost a huge amount of money for Porsche to do, and did not really accomplish much in the way of performance enhancement. But the attititude was basically "If it

What's your budget? I usually advise clients to "keep back" $2k-$3k for "new" repairs. This way the client can buy the best car for their revised budget and take care of those fun things that crop up just after purchase. If you are under 10k, you will probably find a really good T or decent E. Any S you find will either need a total resto (15-20k!!) or is the proverbial "found it in barn story" They are out there, you have to get busy to find them. You have plenty of competition looking for these cars. Good Luck

I agree alot with what Mark and Brian have to say. A couple of suggestions,
1. If you are really interested in the early 70-73 911's I would now be looking in your local newspapers for these models for sale and going out and test driving each model the T,E and the S to see which one you really like and what and then start saving.
2. Talk with other porsche owners and find yourself a good mechanic that you respect and trust. He should be able to help you determine the condition of any car. (Always have a buyers inspection on any car.) They can alway help you a evaluate any car that maybe located out of area. (Be very careful of any Rust on the early 911).
I started my search in the local area through the newspapers and then extended it to the internet. After talking with a seller of a car that I was interested in I would ask them to go and take a roll of film of their car, exterior,interior, engine and under the front hood and send me the film, in which I would have it developed. I found out that there are car owners and then there are Porsche Owners, I saw this by the condition of the cars. It took over 6 months to find a very good 73 911T coupe. I would think that you could find a good 911T from $8000-12000, 911E 10,000-13,000 and a 911S 14,000+

Just as an aside, I know of a large number of early "E" and "S" cars for very reasonable prices. It's a very tight group of guys with nice collections. The options are not very high, but they are genuine, no rust cars. All of them are solid in the jacking points, floors, suspension, rockers, etc. The "E" cars are better deals... bargains if you will and I have seen a few beautiful cars for around 10k. I found a 71"S" with a perfect interior and clean underbody for 12K, but no options at all and could use a paint job. He would have taken 10k for the car. Car is, or was in PA. Some very interesting cars are coming up, but they are getting rarer and the "S" market is going nuts in Europe, so we should start seeing a rise very soon.

P.S.: Always have a qualified Porsche mechanic look the car over... from top to bottom. When you find, what looks to be a nice car, it can be an emotional purchase... almost an impulse buy. Be smart and take a step back. Drive as many cars as you can... they all have different driving characteristics. Most of all... have fun and be patient.

Going nuts it Europe? Look in the back of Excellence/Pano.
GOOD "S"'s are expensive. 20/40K asking prices. 73 S sold for 45K (an 80k resto,suposedely).
Just sold my well cared for and tastefully
modified 73 T for $12k. The first guy (his
wrench,actually)that looked at it, bought it.
JPIII

Not bad. I was offered 38k for my 73S and I sold one about a year ago for 43k, but they are very special cars. Unrestored, fully optioned and original down to their undercoating and in a collection. The fact is, that these were just great cars, usually without all of the frills, but just great to chuck around. Their weight, or lack of it, made them more fun to drive than the newer versions of the cars, although I love the new ones... it's just not the same. Congrats on selling your car.

P.S.: I knew of the car that sold for 45k and it was a beautiful car... on the West Coast. The car was a perfect car, but the European market is and has been driving the early "S" market higher in recent months.

[This message has been edited by marc weintraub (edited 11-22-1999).]

My friend sold his beautiful silver/black '73 S targa about a year ago for around $17,000. That car was about as nice as you could find for a car that is driven. Rebuilt engine, trans, MFI pump etc. powdercoated suspension, detailed chassis, factory sport seats redone in German leather at a cost of $2500, etc. California car with absolutely no rust. Excellent local PCA street concours condition.

Brian

Brian, I am sure it was a beautiful car... too bad he didn't ask more money for it since the cars are rarer than people have been lead to beleive.

If anyone is interested, one of the local dealers in my area has what looks like a very nice '73S targa, red/black with sport seats, supposedly "original throughout". They are asking $14,000. Pristine Motorsports (714) 960-2421. Don't know anything else about the car, though.

I thought I would revive this thread and throw in a couple of comments! A dream stable for me would include all twelve of the MFI '72 and '73 coupe and Targa models, there just aren't any bad cars in the whole family! An RS2.7 is just a pipe dream, these days, for the average enthusiast! One model that I WOULD avoid is the '73.5 'T' CIS engined version ... it just doesn't have the 'character' of an MFI engine, and isn't a lot of fun to work on by comparison. There is just something VERY rewarding and fun about balancing the idle flow with a UNI-SYN and the air cleaner assembly off and listening to the snap, crackle and VROOM of an MFI engine!!! There was an excellent test review of the '72 models in 'Car and Driver' back then, with only one minor discrepancy: I do NOT happen to believe that Titanium connecting rods were EVER an option on any street model 911s!!! I really do wish it had been so.

And, Brian was right about the spirit and times at Porsche back then. It reminds me of NASA in the '60s with all of the dedication and drive that put 12 men on the moon and 15 others in close proximity!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Thats the era of the awesome 917 Check out Vic Elfords 917 for sale $3.5M
@ symbolicmotors.com under classic cars section

[This message has been edited by jryerson (edited 02-25-2000).]

Lots of great info here! If you are a good body man, perhaps you'd like to take over my 70 911T rebuild. All the parts are there except for some ext trim parts and everythings in good shape but the undercarriage which is rusted out. I've got new repro floor pans and such. It's got a 0-mile 2.7, webbers and lots of new parts. If you might be interested email back. I've got a lot invested, but you might make me a resonable offer. Alex adgx@excite.com

Hi,

I have a '73 911S targa. I would suggest that you get the best early 911 in the best condition. If you can't get an "S" in excellent condition, go for and "E" in excellent condition. My car wasn't excellent and I am now paying for it. I need a repaint but good shops are outrageously expensive.

Marc, I am not sure that all 73"S" with factory air ha oil coolers. My targa came with factory AC and it has no oil cooler. Another person on the Rennlist also had a targa S with AC and no cooler. Perhaps Porsche didn't think a targa merited an oil cooler.

Neil
'73 911S targa

Just like to add that I've owned my 1973.5 911T Targa for over two years now - its used every day as a daily driver and is quite a practical car.

It ALWAYS starts first time - I've done over 25,000 miles in it and although the low oil pressure signs an engine rebuild is due soon, there's no reason why I won't keep owning and driving it for years to come.

The spare parts prices are frightening, but the quality is very good - so far I've never had to make a repair twice, due to component failure or shoddy manufacturing and so on.

The car is light, still quite brisk (130mph top speed) and it has a "cruise forever" feeling on the highway at speeds of 65 to 90mph.

One point which I didn't appreciate when I bought it - the wind noise in the Targa is loud as hell and completely unacceptable by modern standards - if I had to buy one again, I'd probably go for the coupe.

If you are on a reasonable budget, and have the time to pick and choose, the 911E probably represents the best 911 value for money today. Those cars tend to be underpriced compared to the S and RS, and their preformance is only slightly less good - in practical day to day conditions fractions of a second just don't make a lot of difference.

Have fun looking!

- roGER