911 Clutch Replacement

OK folks, I'm tired of grinding gears and a hard-to-push clutch in my 911. It's time to do something about it.

1. If I took it to a mechanic, how much should I pay to have the clutch replaced, and the synchros replaced? One place I called estimated $2500.

2. Since that's ridiculous, should I consider doing the job myself? I've replaced lightbulbs, changed the oil, replaced the fuel filter...obviously this is a little more complex...but I'm pretty mechanically inclined. Is this something I can do on my own?

Thanks folks -


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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

When the previous owner had a cluch put in my '83 SC, it was ten years ago and cost almost $1500. I'm about to put one in it now, and I will do it myself, but I've done clutches before. It will take days or (more likely) weeks, particularly if you plan on cracking the transmission. Big savings though. You could use the savings to put in some upgraded, lighter parts. I've heard this helps smooth shifting. So does Swepco gear oil.

My biggest concern in my upcoming clutch project is getting the engine and transmission out and down without them falling, and without damaging things like heat exchangers. I'll look around for the best transmission jack to use.

As far as replacing the clutch goes, do it yourself if you feel you have the mechanical skills. Your investment in books and tools will be offset by the savings in paid labor to have someone else do it. That is not to say that there will be some things you need to farm out to a machine shop to have done.

When I purchased the machine I now have, a 1978 911 SC Targa, I realized it was a different breed of machine. My first approach was to buy lots of books to learn about the mechanics of the car, read them and learn as much as I could from them. It seems like you never have enough books on hand to use for reference.

Once I felt I had a thorough understanding of what needed to be done, the next step was to do it.

When I removed the engine on my porsche, knowing well that if it fell it could get expensive, I invested in three floor jacks, two jack stands and a furniture dolly to set the engine on once it was removed.

Like anything else, you need to proceed slowly and all should go well. But, most of all, understand what you are supposed to do, be safe and don't hesitate to ask questions. There is always someone on this board who is willing to help and provide the answer, regardless of how simple a question it seems.

If you think you are up to the challange, go forward and proceed. Take lots of pics or videos as you move along and go slow. Good luck

Regards

Steve
Steve

mark-
the price you were quoted was close to mine. here's my invoice broken down, i recently had all this done by my very reliable wrench, tom charlesworth. i don't have the time, or tools to do it properly so i had all the work done.

clutch disk....$197.80
release bearing...$189.10
syncro ring set...$114.60
operation sleeve....$199.90
dog teeth 2nd gear....$187.60
dog teeth 1st gear....$187.50
gasket set............$32.22
gear oil......$43.05
rebuild trani & replace clutch (12/hr. labor)...$720
valve service gasket set...$43.20
total...........$1914.97

i also had him do a few other things like a scheduled 15K oil change, valve check etc....it's amazing, my clutch disk was the original with "1984" stamped right on it, it's lasted 16 years, was only slightly worn but since he was working on the trani, i had him rebuild it althogther to save a future trip. hope this helps!


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-jeff 84 carrera cab.

Wow, Jeff, thanks. That's a great breakdown (pardon the pun).

I'm considering this...I don't have all the tools, or the space to do it. Here's the plan: rent a storage garage, move the car and do the work there (since I don't have a garage).

I'd need some tools. The clutch tools, and some more robust tools....can I do all this with hand tools, or do I absolutely need an impact wrench for some of these bolts? Like the main engine bolts, the tranny/engine bolts?

What about jack stands, and a floor jack? And a furniture dolly? Are these expensive? I don't mind having my car down for a month if the cost difference is substantial enough...but if I have to go through a bunch of hoops to get it done, then screw it...I'll just have the clutch done. :/

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

There is a tech procedure on this very site that tells you everything you need to know.

From personal experience, here are some other random thoughts:

1. You don't really need a furniture dolly, etc. to get the engine out. A regular heavy duty rolling jack and some pieces of wood (so you don't damage the case) will work. BTDT many times. It helps to have a helper, though, but it is not essential. I've taken the engine in and out many times by myself.

2. You don't need any special tools, other than a clutch alignment tool (less than $10). You do need a torque wrench, but thats not really a "special" tool. You don't need an impact wrench, etc.

3. Its a job that can EASILY be done by the DIYer in one day. But give yourself a weekend.

4. If all you are doing is replacing the clutch (and related components, flywheel, etc.), you don't really need to drag the engine all the way out from under the car, which can save you from having to jack the end of the car WAY up there, which I think is the most hairy and dangerous part of the job.

See the tech article on this site for blow-by-blow details. They use an SC, but the 915 Carrera is basically the same.

I saw the article, yes....I was planning on a number of things, actually, in addition to the clutch replacement - I thought I might do the valve job at the same time, as well as a brake job. Basically have the car in the garage for three weekends, and get a lot done.

I was planning on pulling the engine all the way out to do the valve job, and also perhaps torque down the intake manifold as well. This would probably be easier with the engine all the way out. Can I get the car up high enough with a regular floor jack? How does one get the back end up high enough?



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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

mark-
i know my wrench had help with the actual engine drop...he basically did all the work in one full day with the car up in the air....but he always has someone there to help him do engine drops, and he has all the tools, and experience. one more thing, my enging had never been dropped before, if yours has, it may be easier, if not....take it to an expert...might save you time, advil and money in the long run...."disclaimer time." my views and thoughts are mine only, i'm sure this falls into someones "DIY" category, i just did'nt want to risk it since the engine had never been dropped and the trani/clutch was also all original, never been opened up...:-)

good-luck mark, let me know how it all turns out!


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-jeff 84 carrera cab.




[This message has been edited by jeff bryant (edited 03-21-2000).]

Mark,
See the thread 'dropping engine' 2-09-00
It has some good points..just go slow it's not bad! I was so paranoid about dropping it in spite of 2 people and 2 jacks, I had pieces of 6 X 6 landscape ties under each side of the piece of plywood under the engine. Then lowered it about 3 inches stopped switched one 6 X with a 4 X on each side dropped it a couple inches then switched to a 2 X etc until it was on just enough to get the jack out. At that point we found we could shift (rock) the weight from one side to the other using a 6 ft crow bar. I don't have any special tools and no air tools but make sure you have a set of hex stud bits as they seem to be needed frequently. When I put my clutch back in I used a deep socket that was a 10 mm 1/2 in drive. It was conveintly necked down to the right size to center the plate! :-))
I'm kinda new at this but isn't there a chance that with a new clutch the tranny will stop grinding gears??? And even if you have the tranny work done it's sure to be cheaper it you can throw it in your trunk and take it somewhere, where the price is right.
Sorry I'm so wordy here,
Ernie

Mark,

If dropping the engine is a real concern, there is a foolproof way of doing it.

Place a floor jack under the transmission mount. Rent a engine hoist and buy a come-a-long. Secure the come-a-long to the frame of the hoist, run the cable with the hook end through a pulley, and attach the pulley to the end of the hoist where the pelican hook is. Attach the hook of the come-a-long to the center of the rear engine support and whalla - you can lower the engine with the come-a-long.

If you want, I have some pics I can send you to show you the setup. That is how I did my removal - real easy and one person can do it.
Regards

Steve

Thanks for the idea Steve. I think in leiu of getting a come-along and renting a hoist I'll probably just invest in a floor jack - it makes sense to have one if I intend to work on the car.

What other tools are necessary? I have a decent ratchet set, although I'll need to get the special tools for the tranny and some metric sockets. Yes, I've been using an adjustable to change my oil

OK, one other thing: I don't have a sump plate. The bottom of my crankcase just has the seam, and the oil drain plug is a nut that goes in horizontally. Where should I put the floor jack to lower the engine down?


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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

Mark, I recommend a 'platform' to sit on the floor jack plate, made of a piece of 2"x12" lumber scrap about 18" long. The center of gravity of the combined engine and transaxle will be slightly forward of the drain plug, maybe halfway between the plug and forward-most portion of the 'flat' portion of the crankcase. I try to place the 2x12 partly under the transaxle, slid forward so 6" is under the trans. and 12" is under engine block, then center the floor jack rotating plate under the CG.

You will need an 8 mm Allen drive to remove the CV-joint bolts, 22 mm Socket and Combination wrench for the four 14 mm engine/trans mount bolts.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa