77 w/CIS turns over, won't start...

[porsche_virus]

I don't want to waste anyone's time with this because I know this question has been asked a dozen times, but when I search for "won't start" or "fuel pump" or "no spark" I get a lot of un-related topics. I'm working on a '77 that has been sitting for 6 years and I replaced the spark plugs, cap, rotor, oil, filters, fuses, etc. and it turns over but won't start.

When I turn the key, there is no fuel pump sound and no whine from the blue Permatune box, but there is 12 volts coming into the box on the center wire of the 3-wire connector. I'm guessing the fuel pump relay is good because it works when I move it to the fog light relay position.

I don't want to start another redundant thread, so if anyone could point me in the right direction on specific search terms for this it would be much appreciated.

[ruf-porsche]

Try squirting some starting fluid in to the air box and see if it starts. If it still doesn't start then it an ignition issue. Check the point gap in the distributor. CDI boxes normally don't go bad from sitting. Was the car stored outside?

[sammyg2]

The fuel pump will not turn on until one of two things happen:
either the starter is engaged, or the air sensor plate is lifted.

Take the air cleaer top and filer off the car. Turn on the ignition and reach in and lift the air sensor plate a little. if the fuel pump turns on you will hear the injectors fire and feel a little resistance in the plate.

If that does not happen you need to check your fuel pump relay and related fuse.

[Doug Steinel]

Take out a spark plug, ground the threads and see if a spark jumps the gap when you turn it over. If not spark, then concentrate on ignition issues.

[porsche_virus]

Those are all good suggestions, but I got anxious and pulled the fuel pump and tested it on the work bench. No noise at all...fuel pump is dead, so have another one on order. Will let you know if that fixes the problem.

[Doug Steinel]

Are you aware that the CIS fuel pumps are lubricated by the fuel they pump and running them without fuel is destructive? See Wayne's book pg. 98

[Gunter]

Sitting for 6 years?
Was the tank full with Stabil in it?
If not, you need to flush the tank and the lines that go to the engine.
Make sure that there is a check-valve with the new pump.
A pump from an SC will fit with some modifications (The banjo is a different size)

[911quest]

I had the same problem with the 77 I just bought it had been sitting for five years I tried everything to get the pump to move but the gas in the pump had seized the vanes inside the pump have you tried to tap on the pump with a hammer handle while you jump voltage to it sometimes they will release.

[azasadny]

Make sure there aren't any old "derelict" car alarm systems still connected to the fuel pump/ignition circuits!

[ruf-porsche]

Nothing to lose, try squirting penetrating oil into the fuel pump and let it sit over night. Then try bench testing it again. If the pump works, don't run it too long, it needs gas to lubricate the pump.

[Joe Bob]

What ya have to pay for a fuel pump? 200+?

[porsche_virus]

Fuel pump was $190 and I should have it tomorrow evening. The pump I removed was original, so I figured it was time for a new one. I could probably get it going temporarily, but I don't want to be stranded anywhere because of a 30-year-old part.

[Gunter]

Does the new pump have an internal check valve?

[Joe Bob]

yeah that check valve is important for hot starts....

[Doug Steinel]

My '77 has an internal check valve. Now that I am having hot start problems, I am trying to upgrade it to the external one.

[porsche_virus]

Okay folks...new fuel pump, new battery, new MSD 6AL ignition unit and MSD 2 coil because the date on the blue Permatune box said 1976 and it wasn't making the "whine" with the ignition on.

The car still turns over like crazy but doesn't try to start at all. Strong fuel smell in the engine bay after a few starting attempts. I've read a ton of posts on wiring the MSD ignition unit, but they all reference this ellusive green wire that I can't find anywhere. I've just hooked up the white wire from the MSD to the spade connector on the side of the distributor that connects directly to the points. The injectors are wet but I haven't had anyone around to turn the engine over while holding an injector in a glass jar to check for spray.

I still think it's in the ignition because it doesn't even sputter or try to start when it's cranking. Do the MSD boxes make any noise when you turn the key like the Permatunes?

Also, what are the boxes next to the fuse box and CD on the left side...there's a small silver box connected to a larger black plastic box. I'm guessing one of them is a voltage regulator. I'm at a loss.

[Joe Bob]

There is a test for the MSD 6AL on the website to see if you have spark....might want to perform that test....

[Gunter]

Do a search on how to check for a spark on a plug, lots of info here.
If you don't have someone to crank the engine, consider installing a 12V splice on the solenoid. (Remote starter)

[azasadny]

Do you have an old "derelict" alarm in the car that could be connected to the ignition/fuel pump circuit preventing the car from getting spark/fuel to start? My '74 had this problem and it was due to an old alarm that I thought was "removed", but it wasn't...

[911quest]

I have permatune on my 77 and it doesn't whine If you dont have spark check the points make sure they are still good make sure the contacts are clean and not corroded I always check for ground on both sides of the point connection with them closed of course cause the ignition needs a good soild ground