Which is the best car for me?

Ok, I'll go ahead and admit it, I don't know much about 911s, I now have a higly modified 944NA, I love driving the car, and I wouldn't want to sell it, but after driving a modified 951 hard for a couple of hours, I think I need something with more power, a lot more power. I can afford up to about 20k, but reliability is very important, as this kind of spending won't leave me much money to fix things. On the other hand, I used to work as a mechanic, and am not afraid of work. However this would be my primary car. I'm ofcourse leaning towards a front engined car, a 968 that I would plan to drop a modified 951 engine in at some point, or a 951. After posting this at 944-968 sites, (I mentioned the 911 to them, but they turned out more stereo typical, and got advised against it)however I'd like to get opinions out of you! PS; I drive hard, all the time, that means at every turn, at every stop light...If I'm not hard accelerating, I'm hard braking! I need something that can take this kind of abuse like my 944 has been. I'm 17 and working to save about 10k , I've got about 3k saved up so far. Rest is going to be provided by my lovely parents. I thank you for all your opinions/comments.

I hope you will accept the following in the positive spirit I will offer it. Driving hard all the time is appropriate for controlled conditions, but NOT for public roads. It's been twenty-five years since I was invincible at seventeen years old. It took a great deal of luck to survive a few of the accidents I've had since then. It's really fun to drive hard, but doing that on publc roads will hurt you. Please learn this more quickly than I did. Nuff lecture.

Perhaps a car with the engine in front of you would be best. 911s are not the right cars to hit things with, head-on. Other than that, they are really fun. Kinda tricky too, though, with all the weight in the rear.

Good luck!

Superman was the voice of reason. Let me play Devil's Advocate.

Get a 911. Yes, it has enough power, not just in the engine, but in braking and cornering. It has everything you need to be even more extreme.

Superman's right - you need to be smart to deal with that kind of power - but good luck and may whatever power you believe in guide you. Good luck. You'll need it.

Be safe.


------------------
Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

Your parents must have rocks in their heads to let a 17 year old behind the wheel of ANY sports car. The last 911 I owned took several years of thorough restoration and modification to complete. After enjoying it for some time I sold it to start a new project. That very next summer I re-purchased what was left of the car at a swap meet. The moron 21 year old (his father purchased the car for him) had ran the freshly rebuilt motor out of oil and let the car sit outside all winter with the top off. If you want to tear something up by running it hard all of the time stick with 944's - they're cheap. By the way, the least powerfull stock 944T puts out 217 HP at around $10K, the most powerfull stock 911SC puts out 180HP at around $15K. Choose your weapon.

Stick with the 944 rather than ragging out a 911. Someone might want to restore the 911 one day and it is a lot tougher to restore one once it has been wrapped around a tree.

wear your seat belt

s

P.S. I would have Loved to have any Porsche when I was 17.

[This message has been edited by H2O911 (edited 04-08-2000).]

Well, thank you all for the replies, I'm signing up for various sports car clubs right now... I was starting to figure that driving on hard on the street is not a very safe thing. Anyway, I'm looking for the best car for me to choose, and I do realize a 951 has more power, might be safer in a crash than a 911 that I can afford. By the way, just because it'll be harder for somebody to restore the car doesn't mean I shouldn't get one, no offense. I do take care of my car, all the maintenance is done way before it's needed. By no means is my car ragged out like most 944s out there. I take long trips where my speed doesn't drop below ~90 mph, and I don't want something going wrong at that speed. I believe that a Porsche is the only car that suits me. I respect Porsches, I just enjoy driving them, the way they were meant to be driven. My car, well the Porsche anyway is stored inside, and washed every week. It's not abused, tire pressure, oil level...etc. are checked EVERY day. I really like the 911s engine tune, as well as the weight bias, in my opinion it gives the car character, and makes it rewarding/fun to drive. I don't mean to offend anybody, just need some opinions.

Hey,chill out a sec.

I had a brand new Corvette when I was 17.

On a trip I took, by myself, from Akron to D.C. I topped it out on the Penn. Tunpike at.... 60 MPH!!! It was "go ahead and arrest me" Red, and had a 245 hp TPI V-8. I took my driving test in the car, the officer knocked his head on the top getting in. "Oh great, I just failed." I thought. Then he looked up at the targa and said, "Wow, you can see through the top on these things. The gauges are digital? Are these seats power? I can't wait to tell my son about this car." After the test he told my mom that basically I was a confident drive and if I could drive a new Corvette with a cop in the passenger seat without being nervous I should be O.K.

At 17 I was also told by the doctors my right leg might have to come off do to bone tumors. Thankfully it all turned out to be benign, but my mom figured life's too short, she always wanted a Corvette, I always wanted a Corvette, so what the heck.

I've seen friend's killed in their hot rod cars, but I've also seen old men driving cars tring to get back years that they just can't. So drive a nice car at 17, but remember you can't bring yourself or others back from the dead. Children DO run into traffic after balls, cars DO stall out in the middle of the road around corners, insurance rates DO go up if you get ONE ticket. That $3000 may go for 6 months insurance, or 30 hrs of lawers fees if you hit someone. Beleive me you won't sleep well, you won't be able to eat, and you won't ever forget if you kill someone, weather or not it's your fault. If you drive like I think you do, it's only a matter of time before something bad happens.

O.K. Stepping off the soap box now.

Get the VIN of a possible car and ask the insurance company for a rate based on that car. It will most likly have to be in your parent name to keep it reasonable. The company can tell what motor came with the car by the VIN, so it is cheaper if you geta standard 9** and then put a turbo in yourself. It won't be worth as much, and if it's stolen you won't get as much for it. If you get a ticket at 17 some companies won't insure you for any price.

I've taken those on track racing coarses and besides learing how to drive on the track you learn the limits of you and the car in a controled environment, just a little humbling. You learn how to avoid situations before they happen, in my case, the coarse also lowered my insurance. It really does help you drive better/SAFER on the street


P.S. I did "peel out" once or twice

If you get any Porsche, it must be a 911. Why? Read the Porsche Newsgroups. Most snooty 911 owners only think of 911s as the true Porsche. And that perception has been the cause of the many deaths of other Porsches (death with respect to the public eye).


Take the KBB values of all Porsches, and compare them with their new prices. You'll find that of almost all cars, and certainly all Porsches, the 911 retains the highest KBB/new sale proportional value over time.

Your Porsche is an investment, and you'll want to get something that's as groovy in 10 years as it is now. Something that can be upgraded and modified. All 911s offer you that. One more thing. No matter what you get, your testosterone levels will more likely kill you than anything else. When you drive a 911, you're the man. Try to remember as that moron next to you is revving his engine, "I've got nothing to prove, I've got nothing to prove...."



------------------
Kurt B
84 Carrera Cab
75 914 1.8

You say that, yet you've got a 914 yourself...I like 914s alot by the way. But I need somethig more modern understandably I hope.

At the risk of seeming a bit judgemental, I observe the following:

In a year and a half of your parent's ownership of a 1984 944 you have blown up a transaxle and clutch, had to have a valve job done on the engine, gotten a major-priced traffic citation, bragged alot about yourself, and your expertese working on your car ... 'done all the work myself,' yet you didn't do the clutch or tansaxle work!!! Don't even think about getting your parents to buy you a 911, as you or they won't be able to afford the repair bills (or insurance, either) ... the things you have had repaired on your 944. so far, would have cost over $10K for a 911! Assuming you don't have a death wish and do manage to make it past your 21st birthday, what you need is a Coevette, Mustang, Camaro, or Firebird ... not quite as fragile or expensive to repair!

It has been 33 years since I was 17, and I have always had one or more hotrods in my stable, from VW Beetle to Mopar and Porsche 911, but my cumulative expense for repairs (not upgrades or enhancements) has been less than yours (under $2K in 35 years) in one and one-half years, and I have been licensed to drive since 1965!!! My strong recomendation would be to buy a new Neon with the factory SCCA race options, get a helmet, driving suit, and a bit of track time under your belt to take out you aggression in a more controlled environment, or else your headstone will need to be engraved a few decades sooner than you expect! I suppose it would REALLY be in your best interest if the state took away your driver's license for a year or two, but I'm sure you wouldn't learn anything from the experience, or stop driving, either ... your parents must be trying to keep you out of their busy lives, or they are lacking in common sense! Just in case you think the Neon suggestion was a joke go check the back issues of 'Car and Driver' from a couple of years ago, at you local library, for a track comparison of race prepared Neon and Mustang, wherein the Neon came within a second or two of the Mustang's lap times, at a cost of less than one-half of the Ford!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Naw, my 914's in the back and rarely ever driven. I just use the Carrera now. It's an 84, with 136k, but it still does around 6.4 0-60 ( I purchased an accelerometer).
6.4 is still fast enough to take most cars.


------------------
Kurt B
84 Carrera Cab
75 914 1.8

Early S_man
hahahahahahah! Hilarious!

------------------
Kurt B
84 Carrera Cab
75 914 1.8

Interesting...I did get a clutch job, bought a rebuilt transaxle, and had valve job, not all at my parents expense though. (a Porsche mechanic happens to be my friend, at European Performance, the only things my parents paid for was the clutch kit, and the rebuilt tranny) And I did not blow a clutch, I just went ahead to change the clutch because the tranny was out of the car anyway. I did rebuild my calipers, changed the master cylinder, put stainless steel brake lines in, changed my rotors, and bearings, struts, shocks and so on. I used to work at GoodYear, as a mechanic, full time last summer, and part time until about two months ago. I did the work on my car when I used to work there, and the rest was done at European Performance, here in Raleigh NC by a good friend of mine. Since I quit from GoodYear, I've only done brake pads/fluid, oil and belt changes. However, my parents did buy the car for me, (read on) and they did help me by about 2k since I bought my car. (My parents bought me a Honda Prelude, which I sold to get a 944 after driving one.) Considering I drove about 40k on it, I don't think that's that bad on their (my parents) part. I've also been to court four times, but I don't have any points on my licence, and I've never caused a wreck. May I ask how you guessed all this? I appericate your suggestion for a neon, but I will not consider a front drive car, not to mention that its american.

By the way, yes 6.4 is pretty good for a street car, you must have done some heavy mods to get a 1.8 to go that fast.

There were no guesses! It is a simple matter to search threads you posted on, and about 15 minutes reading to see what you said involving traffic citations, clutch, transaxle, valve job, etc.

Kurt's 6.4 was in his '84 Carrera, not a 914, and it would't take most, if any, early S's ... the '67 was timed at 6.5 by Car and Driver, and later models are a little better!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 04-08-2000).]

Well, my parents don't like my car that much(My father is a professor, and has owned many sports cars, he understands...My mother is a doctor) because it's taking up way too much of my time, I mean other than the 3k I have saved up, every penny I've earned is in this car. If I'm not driving it, I'm either on the net reading about it, or working on it. Anyway, maybe I should hang on to it until I finish collage, it doen't feel good to work so much and end up with just a car, no matter how special that car might be.

(By the way, the money that my dad's planning to give me is going to be supplied by his 12th book, published last tuesday) Thank you for your suggestion once more.

I've heard about how a front engined Porsche is not a real Porsche, blah blah blah, then what does a real Porsche mean, 911 is a fragile sports car? I hope not.

[This message has been edited by 1.2gees (edited 04-08-2000).]

Car and Driver timed a '78 911 SC at 5.5 seconds to 60mph. Car and Driver test numbers are consistantly lower than other sources, because C&D staffers will slip the clutch more (and at higher revs) to get a good launch.

Are you saying that the 911sc is faster than the 951?

On my 6.4: The car is said to do 6.3 at half load capacity.
My 6.4 expresses my incompetence with the car. I know if you put someone in there who could drive it, they could shave 4 or 5 tenths with 1 person, no spare, no tools, and a 1/3 of a tank of gas!
I don't know how a 70s 911 could do much better unless they're considerably lighter.
The curb weight on my 911 is round 2755 lbs and it puts out around 200hp.
I don't see how an older 911 could put out more horsies with less CCs and 70s technology (non-turbo)!



------------------
Kurt B
84 Carrera Cab
75 914 1.8

Oh, and here's my new signature for the kids who don't know that Carrera = 911 Carrera!
No more Confusion folks.

------------------
Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

Kurt, I don't know much about 911s, but I do know that "Carrera" signifies the performance models of Porsches, in your case a 911. I only thought that you could get ~6 sec to 60 in your 914, I was wrong. In other words, I realized you had a 911 and a 914, I just thought the 6 sec was for the 914.