Early 911 or 912 ?

Deschodt · 10:41 AM

I am looking at 2 relatively cheap cars right now, as a third car, a garage project/toy if you will - not primary transportation...

Both are 69s, one is a 911T, one is a 912. The 912 is a color I prefer (white) and a coupe, the 911 is red and a targa, 2 strikes a against it in my book, normally... But, on an early car, I think I might grow to like the targa after all... (once I remove all the aftermarket crap that is on the car)

I was initially leaning towards the 912 because they are different and so easy to maintain, but given a very similar price, I thought a flat 6 power and sound would be nice too, but I wonder if it really would be that much better. The 912 is lighter, has less weight in the butt, the flat 4 is rated at 95hp stock and 110+ with a big bore kit. The 911T of 69 is also 110 hp if I recall, and being a targa, probably more flexible...

If you were going to have one in the garage as a project, as a fun driver, and were hoping not to lose money on it, which way would you go ? I realize it probably comes down to preference but I would not mind hearing some opinions either way !

Thx !

PS: Ironically I just found a 69 review from R&T or C&C with Mark donohue driving the 912, 911T targa, 911E and S coupe ! His favorite ? The 911T targa ? Who am I to argue with Mark Donohue ? ;-)

cgarr · cgarr's Garage

912

BK911 · BK911's Garage

Tough call. Is your SC a coupe? If so, go with the Targa. It will be a sunny day driver, so why not have a removable roof? But the 4 cylinder is nice with today's gas prices. How about a 914?

Deschodt · 09-02-2006, 10:42 AM

Nah, don't just 912 or 911 me ;-) Give me reasons, be passionate about it ;-)

Yes, my 911Sc is a coupe, and my boxster is likely to go in a year or 2, so having an open car might be fun... Any opinions on the 69T motor ?

BK911 · BK911's Garage

914.

Targa, 4 cylinder, light, mid-engine, unique, ~cheap but appreciating, ~cheap to work on, etc..

Then eventually drop in a -6, 911 brakes and suspension and you have a car with the same engine, brakes and suspension of a 911 but is lighter and mid-engine.

djdsc · 09-02-2006, 12:25 PM

Sorry, you are absolutely wrong if you think that buying a 912 is cheaper to maintain than a 911. The only basic difference is the power plant, the rest is all Porsche. Do some research, 912 motor rebuilds are easily in the $8-14K price range these days.

Easier to set the valves, change the oil, adjust the carbs, pull the motor, sure. But the rest is still 911 maintenance.

Concourse 912's are selling in the $30k range these days. Get on board with the times.

Will the 912 out handle the same vintage 911 and newer? Go watch an auto-x event.

Deschodt · 09-02-2006, 12:50 PM

>Sorry, you are absolutely wrong if you think that buying a 912 is cheaper to maintain than a 911.

I have no idea where you read that in my post... I just mentioned "easier to maintain".. I've owned 2 356s and I know that powerplant very well... I tend to do less work on the 911 motors, it's more complex (to me)

>Will the 912 out handle the same vintage 911 and newer? Go watch an auto-x event.

Educate me, is it ? I've been told it's pretty competitive, and my old 911 wrench raced a 912 actually.... So I think it is.. I can't quite guess which way you were leaning with your comments ! Though I'm gonna guess 912 given your sig file ! ;-)

304065 · 09-02-2006, 02:07 PM

Oh please, the 911/912 debate is SO 1965. . .

Buy the one with the least amount of rust and drive the living crap out of it.

Deschodt · 09-02-2006, 03:12 PM

Both are rust supposedly free ;-)

The other reason I ask is the the early 912 seem to be on a stratospheric price rise vs the 911s.... Compared to 10 years ago at least, when 912s were worth nothing...

OK, fine, I'll stop bothering John !

304065 · 09-02-2006, 03:52 PM

Rust FREE? Then buy them both. Better than T-bills.

Of course we all know that "rust-free" means "looks like it did a summer at the bottom of the English Channel."

Seriously, a 911T vs. a LWB 912 is not a meaningful distinction in power, speed or price to restore. The coupe sounds better, particularly in light of the "aftermarket crap" which may have been added by a DPO with little regard for originality. Things like replacing shorted out wires with all the same color, or painting over wires, etc., abound in such circumstances. So if both truly are "rust free" then buy the one that is more original, you will save many, many headaches.

Good luck!

Green 912 · 06:19 PM

Rust free! That's good. All that means in pre galvanized Porsches is the rust is free, you pay for the rest of the car.

As you know from owning 356s the 912/356 power-plant is a good solid motor. 69T motor is a bit of a lump when you look at the power. Regardless, for a weekender 3rd car total power is not too important but I bet some will think that is crazy talk.

If I had 356 before I would get the 912 all other things such as condition being the same. For anything other than street driving and putting around get a 911. Get the best condition car you can. A little more $ up front often means less $ spent later.

In order 1. Condition 2. What your gut tells you you want. 3. Price.

As was said if they are both truly rust free and reasonablecost get them both and sit on them

Evans, Marv · 09-02-2006, 06:38 PM

"Get them both." Good advise!

Michel J · 09-02-2006, 07:42 PM

I have both and enjoy them equally. They are different for sure, but, each is fun in it's own way. The 912 is slower off the line, but, once it's moving, it puts a smile on my face. The 911 is more authorative at all speeds and is also very enjoyable.

I think the 912 engine is easier to maintain. The 912 valve adjustments can be easily be done in 30 minutes. The 911 will take you 2 hours plus and you will need to drain the oil (all 12 quarts!) Also, the 912 only uses about 5 quarts of oil.

I can't believe a standard 912 engine rebuild could run as high as $14K. For that kind of $ you could build a 912 engine that puts out 140 HP.

Michel

66 912
76 911
70 914

rteague · rteague's Garage

owned a 65 and 1/2 912 one fo the first ones. wish I had it back. did nothing but drive it hard and no repair. r.t.

AbbyAk · 09-02-2006, 08:30 PM

All depends if you ar a coupe or targa guy. I've owned both 911 and 912 in both Coupe and targe forms. Just bought a local 68 912 soft window targa in really good shape for a very surprising price. Being a coupe guy, I'm trying to decide whether to keep it. There are some really fun things about a targa, but the lines of the coupe are so perfect. maybe both is the best answer.

Green 912 · 09-03-2006, 05:30 AM

I did a crank out full rebuild on my 912 motor last winter for $1800 with new P&Cs. I think the 356 men in plaid gang has inflated the cost of a standard rebuild for a weekend driver with no cost to large everything just right off to pebble beach motors.

Deschodt · 09-03-2006, 05:54 AM

Thanks guys... Yes, it probably comes down to coupe vs Targa...and condition !

I've always been a coupé guy, I am not anti-targa or cabrio, it's just that the lines of the car are so pretty in coupé form - however while I am no fan of 80s targas, on an early car I think I can live with it.... Especially top down.

I'm going to see that car today, and will try to subtract the cost of removing : the tail (original deck lid to be resintalled and repainted), the cheapo RS bumper (swapped), the aftermarket crap mirrors...on both sides (refill door panel, repaint), the incorrect steering wheel, and make a low ball offer if the car has no rust and runs OK...Well, low ball meaning asking price minus all that !

If not, I'll probably go for the 912 coupé, after all, I already have a 911 and that early T has the same HP as a good 912 and I am a sucker for the underdog or the weird cars... I will let the car condition decide in the end... The only reason this happened ( I was goign for a cheap 912) is that these days 912s are going up in price and the 911 was almost the same price as a decent 912, so I figured "why not upgrade to the flat six sound package".... I'll let you know !

mnmike · 09-03-2006, 11:10 AM

greg

by the sounds of it, go with the 912, unless the 911 comes at a very low price. if you go with the 911 let me know. I might be interested in swapping some of the parts that you dont want.

Deschodt · 11:28 AM

Well, I saw the 69 Targa, the 911 that is... What a fright pig !!!
The body was indeed rust free - surprise !!!

Everything else.... owww.... quad exhaust, 80s reflector and rear bumper, home made bumperettes, ill fitting whale tail and allt he chrome painted black (by hand), 73RS valance that looked 2 sizes too small, wood wheel with wood inserts around the horn and on the dash, kick ass "rice" stereo and boombox on the rear deck, chrome trim around the wheel openings, the hood had no gap on one side and 1/2 " on the other and barely closed.... It's borderline criminal what the PO did to that car - can't believe that the current owner bought it as is, I suppose that means you can sell ANYTHING !

The body was really good though,and the motor very sweet, but no thanks ! So I'm off to see the 912 in a few days... I guess there are no miracles after all,and a $11K 69 911 is gonna be a scary no matter what! Hell, my previous "spliced" 73T was 10x better than this for less money !

I took no picture, I was afraid to hurt my camera or infect my memory card!

ianc · 09-03-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

I took no picture

Why not? We could have all used a good laugh!

Seriously Greg, what the hell are you doing? The last I heard from you, you were thinking of preparing your SC for the track, and wondering whether to drive it or the Boxster. Now you're angling for yet another oldie? What kind of crazyness reigns in FLA?

ianc