Airconditioner Functioning?
 

I have never used the airconditioner on my 89 Carrera since I bought it. This summer, I may be taking some extended trips and I am thinking of getting it serviced since it isn't blowing cold air. I have heard that even when running optimally, these are'nt really that efficient. Is it a matter of just getting the system recharged? If so, do I need to take it to a P dealer? Since I really don't use it,( This is Pittsburgh, Not Miami), I don't want to dump $$ into a sytem that does'nt work to begin with. Thanks ahead of time. Michael,

Should run it once a week just to keep everything lubed, take it to the "AC" place in your area. Someone on this board will let you know where that is.AC can, is, very expensive to repair in these cars.I live along the coast in So Cal and have a hard time remembering to turn mine on now and then.Mine is spitting a line of oil from the ceramic seal on the compressor to the top of my deck lid. 1,000-1500 to fix?, you may only need a charge.

Maybe you ought to just try it out on an 85 degree day ... surely there will be a few of those long before summer. As far as efficiency goes, the Porsche systems were certainly adequate in 100 degree weather, but maybe not the quickest to cool down an interior. I have always heard you should run any A/C system once a month to keep the oil circulated and the seals working. See if it is working at all before taking it to a shop, they usually on need to be recharged every other year or so. The culprit is the LONG rubber hoses, which tend to breathe, very slowly, of course ... you've got about 20 feet of hose in that system, and the typical front-engined car has only 6-8 ft.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

With all the hose in 911s it probably seeped out.
You can call around to get the best price it doesn't take skill to recharge the system as the machines do all the work but if there is a leak or other probs you may need to take it to someone who knows Porsches who will then gouge you.
My SC took about 2 lbs so it cost me about $130 last summer to charge it most places will not recycle the old freon in your system as they don't know where it came from
The A/C is not the greatest but it does make a difference and is worth having if you are stuck in hot weather in heavy traffic .
The AC works good to about 105' then you get a little warm
I ended up replacing the York for a Sanden which is a far superior compressor and uses less HP the York would build up pressure and stop turning and snap belts.Other than charging the system twice I did all the work myself as far as installing the new Sanden which all together cost me about $500.
Most shops would have charged me $1000+ plus for everything

for what it's worth---i've found that my car needs 1-2 pounds every year....we have hot (100+) days in the summer and cold in the winter.....but it constantly looses 1-2 lbs a year....

The SC uses a special kind of AC hose that has little "pinholes" in them. I don't know why this is, but it is why most SC's need to be recharged every year. Was not a big deal when freon was cheap and easy, but its a costly system these days!

The hoses can be replaced with "barrier" hoses that don't leak, and your car will have a much better chance of holding freon for more than a year.

Porsche has been using the 'pinhole' hose since 1968 with the Behr factory A/C systems. The hose ends I have seen are not crimped, but are screwed together, much like Airequip fittings, so replacing the hoses with a new, US-made bulk hose yourself might not be a bad idea, if your system is indeed empty at this time, or close enough to it to require 2 lbs of Freon-12. A chat with your local industrial hose supply company would be a good idea! Even if your hoses are crimped, the hose supply house should be able to install your hose ends on new hose and crimp them with new crimp-sleeves!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

I spoke to a local shop that gave me a quote of $200 to recharge the freon and include a dye to check for potential leaks. After speaking to him, I got less and less interested in doing this. If I wasn't going to resell it in the future,(you never know), I would tempted to remove the whole system. Any idea how much it weighs? Thanks for all your advice and information.

I have heard numbers cited in the 180-200 lb range, but I don't know how you could be that precise without specifying compressor type, 1 or 2 condenser model. As far as removing it goes, we have 'talked' over that issue and whether it diminishes resale value, and the esthetics of something you really can't remove all traces of ... seems to me the only easy things to remove are under that rear decklid, and those would be reversible, assuming you properly plugged the hoses going to the front.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

You could always convert to R-134a. I did it my self and the A/C works fine. It still has a leak but it is a lot cheaper to add a $5 can of 134a every couple of months than it is to track down all of the possible leaks...

The proper way to check an a/c unit for leaks is either to pressure test it or put a vacuum on it and check if for a leak that way.

Although hoses have a tendency to leak, they can be soap tested. If you see bubbles, there is a leak. Most likely, the leaks occur at the seals around the bearings when the unit hasn't been used for awhile.

The newer cars run the units when the defrosters are on and this helps keep the seals lubricated so they will not leak.

One thing you have to be concerned about with your a/c units is the laws have changed and it is no longer acceptable to just add refrigerant when it leaks down. As we all know, the feds are involved in our daily lives and they can fine you $25,000 per incident. Beware.

If you find that the hoses are leaking, look in the yellow pages for a shop that can install new hoses for you (not an automotive shop). They are a lot cheaper and they will install and press fit the hose to the fitting.

As far as the weight goes, the compressor and brackets probably weight 25 lbs, the hoses,filter/dryer, evaporator and condensor probably weigh a combined total of at most 50 lbs. Not a hugh weight loss.

Any advice on adding r-134a to your system? My car has already been converted.

There's also a small tear in the lining of one of the hoses leading up to the front...it's just the rubber that's torn. Can I patch that? Does it matter? Do I have to replace the hose?

I think my system is totally empty - the AC does not work at all.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

If your system is out of refrigerant, in all probability that hose is leaking. There is no quick fix or repair for it. It needs to be replaced.

If your system is a 134a system, then your are in good shape. Have the system checked for leaks, make the necessary repairs and you r air conditioning system should be in good to go.

As far as adding refrigerant to the system, you can purcahse gauges to do this for about $35.00.

The easiest way to check your system to see if it's doing what it's supposed to is to check the air temp. The air temp needs to be about 40F with a load on it (Outside air temp about 90F).

Regards

Steve



Regards


Steve

The most important ($) thing I have ever learned when working on 911 A/C systems is to never run the system with the engine lid up. If your car has a deck lid condensor, and it does not have air flowing through it as is the case with the deck lid up, the condensor will heat up causing an increase in head pressure. This higher pressure will find a weak spot, most likely in your evaporater (most expensive part) and cause serious leak headaches.

Had the man at the gas station near where my wife works add freon to my 87 carrera last July. As best I can tell, they ran it with the engine cover open as the leak they found"was in the compressor under the end flange at the non drive end. Translation: the pressure kept increasing until an inner o ring failed.
Got a Kuehl compressor and a dryer from Griffiths and was just going to install them but decided the whole hog would be a better approach. The total length of hose in a 2 condenser 911 is approx. 38 feet! The hose switching job lo tech but tedious and exhausting. Had them fill it with the go faster 134a fluid and am now living happily ever after. It blew 39 degrees at a 65 ambient. The test will be on July 4th.
Ned

[This message has been edited by valerie (edited 04-28-2000).]

Can anyone provide the cost and procedure to convert to a R-134A. I have a 1986 Cab and am interested in making the change. Any help would be appreciated.

Conversion is relatively simple. You can buy conversion kits at the auto parts stores. However, if you open the system up, you need to have some way of removing the moisture.

My recommendation would be to take it to a auto a/c shop and let them do it for you. They can also check the system out for leaks and ensure that its working properly when its done.

Regards

Steve

Costs for changing to 134a. New hoses, about 550. dryer 100. New compressor is 425. I did the hoses, real pain down, up, down until you are wrecked. Gave it to the guy recommended by a good body shop who leak tested it (I was proud)Gave him about 180 and we are now ready for the torrid summer of 87. Chopping the old hoses with a pruning shears was quite satisfying. Will give a performance report after the first warm day. Am located in Ct, near the city. Ned Monaghan

I converted my '88 for about $175. New receiver/drier $100, conversion kit $35 (Pep boys) 4 cans of 134a $25. I did not put the adaptors on the compressor so I still have the R-12 fittings on my compressor. A guy was working on my neighbor's home A/C and I got him to evacuate my system for me for free. Then I charged it my self. It has a slow leak somewhere but I just tried a can of 'stop leak' in it although I am not expecting results from it. I think that the oil capacity was 4oz and the R-134a capacity is 80% of the R-12 capacity. I have seen kits at Wal Mart for $35 that have an oil charge and 4 cans of R-134a and the charging hose. I know that someone is going to lecture me about not doing it right (flushing the system etc.) but it works...

I don't have any ac gauges, but in order to get around 45 degrees at the vent, I had to put in 48oz. of r134a. since the r12 capacity should be 39oz. on my 84 carerra, do I just blip some out or leave at as is. I know there is old r12 oil in there, I had someone vacuum out all the old r12. Then 8oz. of new r134 oil were put in and then the 4 cans of r134a.
So what should I do? It seems to work fine, the low pressure line by the compressor gets nice and cold. The ball in the dryer sight glass was never visable even with r12, so I can't go by that reference. And the reason for the 48oz. of r134a was to get a good 45 degree vent temp.