What is the best mileage to buy an 84-89 911 with?

[umfan866]

OK here goes. I have been wanting a Porsche for several years, been following the market very closely, and at first I was looking for a sub-5k 911, well I gave that up finally after seeing first hand the "projects" I would be in for -- either massive body work or engine work. I also read the book the "Gold Plated Porsche" which also scarred the living daylights out of me in terms of repair costs. Now I am a believer is that the "cheapest" Porsche is one that is "well sorted out" and that has no major known repairs looming.

I recently learned (and correct me if I am wrong) that you have to start worrying about a top-end or rebuild around 150k (is this a good rule of thumb?) I have seen many cars advertised for sale that are right about this mileage. But it seems like a bad idea to buy them, unless they have had a top-end done. I also see cars for 120k and 130k, and I only plan to drive 5k a year, so those might be acceptable to buy if I want to avoid a top-end or rebuild,
at least for a while. But then I may run into the same problem, that when I want to sell, it is right at 150k and potential buyers would have the same issue as I am having.

I seem to be the sweet-spot might be buying a 911 that has about 60-80k where you could keep it 4-5 years, and sell it with the new owner also not having to worry to much.

If you go much lower, say buying a low-mileage "garage queen" with 30k then you pay such a premium, and you have to worry that the thing sat around too long so that you have to start replacing seals, rubber etc.

I know these are general rules of thumb and not always applicable. For example, bento (on this board) is selling an 87 G50 car w0ith 230k where the case has never been cracked.

Anyway, do others feel the sweet spot is 60-80k also? And let say you do end up with a car that is at 150k --- do people do "pro-active" top-ends or rebuilds, or you basically wait until the car has some major symptoms? Also, do actual selling prices (maybe not asking prices) go down around the 150k mark and higher, to account for this? And also, do cars with a recent known good-quality rebuild go for a premium? Are there situations where you can use these facts to your advantage, such as make a seller of a 150k car give you a huge (3-5k) discount because a rebuild or top-end might be looming...

It seems like with some forethought you might be able to plan things to reduce your chances of getting stuck (I know it is all probabilistic--nothing is a guarantee).

(BTW I am posting this in the technical discussion area and not marketplace discussion, since the question is related to the technical/mechanical repairs that come with mileage.)

THks Marvin.

[randywebb]

There is no mileage sweet spot (except for cars with 250,000 +) on them.

It is entirely based on the driving and maintenance/repair history.

The motor will run for a very very long time if taken care of. Same for the trans and other items.

[mnmike]

yeah i think the key is to know whats been done. If you buy a car with 80k, expect wheel bearings and some of those kinds of wear items to go in a few years. Id say just find a car that meets your budget and has a decent history. If your really sure that a big repair would break the bank, then maybe you dont want to buy a 911. I mean its just a risk youll need to take considering parts and know-how do come at a higher price then say on a BMW

[johnsjmc]

I have had about 15 of these cars in the last 30 years and they are long lasting with a few known exceptions. The 915 trans will need attention about 100k mi.The engines are good to 150 area with exception of the 2.7and pre 84 cars need tensioners before 100 also. I think the statement that they are all $20,000cars is a good one. I would look for a car with an owner who has spent more than the car is worth on repairs and improvements and pay a small premium above market for it. I would also avoid the very bottom(major project) or very top(garage ,show queen) of a price range or mileage group of cars.

[hcoles]

I had to do top end at 65k...when I bought the car at 47k it was making the ticking noise....root cause unknown. Various 911's have had valve guide issues at very low milege... I don't know what to tell you...could be whatever milege you buy you could have a major repair...there are a few consistant keys:
- you are buying the person not the car
- maint. history, see listings
- if major repairs who did them..see reciept
- my fav. have a very good body shop guy inspect
- get a Porsche expert do a PPI

that's my 2 cents..

if it really going to be a problem get another brand of car...there are lots of good cars out there...I think it is better to have fun with your car e.g. taking it to the track/AXing compared to sitting at home afraid that it might break

I guess make that 3 cents worth

[livi]

Yes, accurate maintenance is important.

In a local newspaper last week there was a guy who bought a new Mercedes in the eighties. He had done ALL the maintenance himself from day one. Never had to touch the engine or the trans.

This summer the car ticked over 1000 000 km. Thats roughly 621 000 miles!

[89911]

Look at it this way, if you are buying an 87 to 89 car, you are talking a car that is 19 to 21 years old. Factor in casual driving, (I would consider under 3-4000 miles/year a reasonable amount.) This means the car hasn't sat unusued for years and hasn't been a daily commuter. This leaves you with a car that has 57,000 to 84,000 miles, roughly. My 89 has 75,000 on it so it falls under this catagory. I would expect a car that has had this amount of use and is showing no issues with the engine should be ok. Generally , if the valve guides are going, they would of appeared by now. This is usually the most common problem. Unfortunately, the only way you can often tell is be excessive engine oil use and you would need to drive if 500-1000 miles and monitor the consumption. My valve guides were replaced about 60,000 and they had plenty of play in them that was causing the oil consumption. Still did not cause any performance issues. I used the opportuning to do other work like enlarging the engine anyway. I think the majority of these cars are going to need valve guide replacement and I would say the ideal car would be a car in the mile range I mentioned above with documented proof of valve guide replacement. You should have a bulletproof car for many years after this.

[umfan866]

Thanks everyone so far-- the particular car I am looking at now is an 88 911 with 132,000 on the clock, and no major engine work done. The guys mechanic says the clutch is about 50% through its life but the engine is fine. I'd of course still have a PPI done and my mechanic would charge me $250 for that.

OK thanks and keep 'em coming.

[rteague]

Find a model or color or year that isn't common. There's lots of porsches for sale and no one gives them away. Be prepared to spend 5-10k right away. If you have to sell then if its a special car you don't lose so much.

[umfan866]

Yeah the one I drove today is an 88 Commerative Edition - one of only 300 imported that year, and the color is a Diamond Blue Metallic, aka Pewter. But my wife just nixed the whole idea so I guess its back to the drawing board.

[anthony]

Often, it just comes down to settling for the best car you can find.

I bought an 85K mile car. It needed small stuff like tires, shocks, brake hoses and a caliper rebuild. I've also had to do a pedal cluster rebuild because a broken roll pin and a new clutch cable. I think it's around this mileage that a lot of little stuff needs to be replaced.

Another strategy is to find that 100-120K mile car that has had a lot of work put into it with all mainntenace current. I mean finding a car that may have an upper end job, syncrhos refurbished, etc. You'd be good for another 100K miles

[Palum6o]

I remember going through the same thoughts. I was caught up with the G50 vs 915, mileage, color, etc... You are doing the right thing by asking questions and collecting opinions. I found a mechanic first before anything, you can learn a lot from a good experienced one, he'll become sort of your family doctor. I bought mine with 126K, it had all receipts and good history. Top end and trans were rebuilt. So far I've been really happy. I'm reading the "Gold Plated Porsche" too, real funny, but that guy's a little crazy. I was alarmed in the recent Excellence (p117), someone had paid $13K for a top end rebuild and a clutch 6 mo. after spending $18k on an '87 targa w/99k miles. Scary. The editor's comment made me laugh "...The only way to make financial sense out of this car now is to keep it and drive it for a long time to come." My brother is into Alfa's, had many, and believe me, no two Alfa's are the same. I would say, be skeptical of a car that has 80-120miles, find out what was done to it. If the top end was done and tranny shifts nice, and maintained right and doesn't burn oil or leak real bad, like the others said above. Feel it out and good luck!

[defcon65]

I've read that the valve guides can be an issue with these cars, but you're usually OK if you get to 60K and there's no smoking. Other than that, it's a crap shoot depending on the previous owners and how much they babied or beat on it. I got mine from a mild-mannered surgeon (1 year owner) who bought it from an elderly judge (nineteen years owner). Complete maintenance records are key.
The best buys are lower-mileage, well-maintained garage queens or higher-mileage and extensively upgraded enthusiast's cars. a Leakdown test is a good measurement of how hard it has been driven.
Good luck, it's a slippery slope.

Regards,

[umfan866]

There is a guy selling an 87 coupe for only 13.5 k, but the catch is that it has 230k on the clock, with the engine not being opened (and some tracking and autocrossing too). He figures according to his mechanic that the engine just needs to be driven to its demise at this point, and that it may reach its limit (and need a rebuild) within 50k (it is burning excess oil now, but within reason). I asked my mechanic whether you need to start worrying about a "top end" at 150k and higher, and he said no you can just add a lot of oil ... for a long time. I don't get the connection between needing a "top-end" and burnign oil instead -can anyone clarify? (and sorry if this thread is wandering a bit - but hey this is another 87 I am considering .....)

[hytem]

I think 90-100K miles is a good place to start. The price will be reasonable--somewhere in the middle of those low mileage cars and the real high mileage ones. At that mileage, the car should still have good rubber on it, and is still good for a lot of miles without major engine maintenance, assuming it has the upgrades.