Gold glitter in the oil?? oh-oh.

nabilious · 09-17-2006, 07:36 PM

After a long day at the track (250 miles of it) for a local DE day I got home and changed the oil. It ran out so fast I very nearly had an Exxon Valdes accident in the garage. Its my track car with a hot 2.7L engine with a front mounted cooler (15 quart and during any given oil change I can only get at 10 or so) I noticed a little more glitter than usual. Now we all see a very fine glitter when we change our oil if you stare hard enough but I didn;t have to look that hard this time as they were the size of maybe the very end of pin heads. Hard to tell their true color as its in the dark oil (or probably gas/oil in this case!) but it apppeared to be gold. Changed the filter and oil and gonna put 20 miles on it tomorrow and change it again...and probably again and check the results.....anybody wanna tell me the bad news and is there an affordable oil analysis out there? I would like to test it after I'm sure I got most of the old stuff out.
Thanks,
nabil

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Bearing materials

nabilious · 09-17-2006, 08:08 PM

But would you say that if I flushed well and checked it out there may be a chance that it was a one time event or is the gold color indicitive of imminent failure? I know, I'm just grasping at straws here and as winter approachs I should plan on a tear down. Have you seen this before?
Thanks,
Nabil

DW SD · 09-17-2006, 08:23 PM

Send the oil sample to Kennedy - $20 per test. It is cheaper than your repeated oil changes. Was there anything on the magnetic plug?

Doug

EarlyPorsche · 09-17-2006, 08:37 PM

Usually after super hard running any engine will wear out its rod and main bearings a bunch like that. What I would say is that its normal. I think you could just probably replace the filter in a couple hundred miles and be good to go. Just what I would do, let us know what you do.

nabilious · 09-17-2006, 08:38 PM

There was a just a little on the drain plug of a more sliver color, not much at all mind you, just enought to see standing on the magnet. I;ve seen worse there on other cars but the tiny gold fakes had me scared senseless (like my driving last weekend). Who's Kennedy?
Nabil

Eagledriver · 09-17-2006, 08:45 PM

(quote) Usually after super hard running any engine will wear out its rod and main bearings a bunch like that. What I would say is that its normal. I think you could just probably replace the filter in a couple hundred miles and be good to go. Just what I would do, let us know what you do. (unquote)

I respectfully disagree with this. The 911 engine in non turbo charged form has very little bearing wear no matter how hard you drive it. Now if you have had oil system issues then that's another matter. The life of the bearings is almost legendary. This is why we do top end overhauls and leave the bottom end alone so often.

Do you have a modified oil tank? Do you keep the tank full to the very top mark or even above when on the track? Over the last decade or so with the increased grip of track tires oil system limitations have started to appear.

-Andy

nabilious · 09-17-2006, 08:56 PM

I keep the fill the tank with the same amount that comes out, usually 10 qts, theres about 14 in the system with the front cooler, but you cant get at them so theres always a little old stuff in there. I was alittle suprised with how the oil came out, it RAN out. Very thin. The car runs a little rich and doesn;t get street driven too much. My fear is that half way through the long day of really hard driving it could have used an oil change somewhere through the day. My theory it that the oil got beat down throughout the day and polluted with gas, then it stopped cushioning the main and rod bearings, as they ar the ones that have copper in them....after you get through the steel surface. I'm hoping its something else but if I change the oil again after a couple of short trips and I see a whole bunch more (won't know if its from the 5 qts left in the system, but even if it is that means that there;s alot of copper floating around and that not comforting either). I'd be interested in an oil analysis for insurance as if it doesn't need to come apart this winter I would be VERY pleased as there is a rust bucket '73 E just begging for some love that I was gonna attach this winter, this could change things a bit.
Nabil

Early_S_Man · 09-18-2006, 08:43 AM

Nabil,

I disagree strongly that bearing material looks anything like gold, or that this is normal in a 'hard' run engine!!!

Gold means brass or bronze, and the most likely source is the distributor! I suggest that you immediately pull the distributor at TDC #1, and do the partial disassembly, cleaning, and inspection discussed in the following thread:

distributor lube...

First phase is to remove vacuum module, point plate, and cam.

What you are looking for is excessive play of the central shaft the drive gear is mounted to.

Second phase of the inspection is related to the central shaft, and its' bushings, shims, spring steel washers, and fiber washers that all act in concert to keep normal vertical play to less than 0..004" and lateral [axial] play to practically zero!

1. due to worn out or missing washers, shims -- vertical play [noticeable as missing the thick fiber washer normally found between lower body and gear] and badly worn or missing shim and steel washer.

2. or, lateral play in the shaft due to worn bronze/brass bushings that the shaft run in.

My suspicion is that you will find both conditions above. With the significant 'gold' you found in the oil, the condition should be obvious!

If the oil still has any significant smell of fuel or noticeable thinning, then I suggest another oil change immediately after you address the distributor issues.

Good luck!