fuel cells for the masses

charleskieffner · 09-21-2006, 11:45 AM

saw a picture awhile ago showing 911 with a fuel cell AND A SPARE TIRE mounted on top(rally 911). an inflated spare tire at that. boss mentioned rally 911 being built, but didnt know who made fuel cells like this.

well for all of us who want safety, but were upset about no space for spare tire due to fuel cell size, i have found the manufacturer. of course its not here in the U.S., its in england. but at least its available, for those of us who track their cars and occasionally take them on road trips. dont know cost or specifications but e-mailed them today, and hopefully will receive info back soon. will forward when i receive. best of both worlds.

heres their website.........mailbox@advancedfuelsystems.co.uk

gestalt1 · 09-22-2006, 10:50 AM

nice looking cells - they even make the r style through the hood type. i would be curious what the cost is.

charleskieffner · 09-22-2006, 12:04 PM

waiting on e back from them w/all info. FIA approved. no more tire inflator!!!

pieterk · 09-22-2006, 12:54 PM

I'm guessing this is it?

Pretty cool!

charleskieffner · 09-24-2006, 03:35 AM

thats it! note how simple it should be to run nozzle from stock fill location. havent heard back from them yet on pricing.

JohnJL · 09-24-2006, 05:13 AM

Why are those better than the stock tanks? The stock tanks get the weight way down low, doesnt cost anything extra, and the pump, sender, filler and gauges all work fine.

ipapilot · 09-24-2006, 06:53 AM

John,
Can't say for sure they are better, but many race organizations in the states require a cell in lieu of the stock tank.

charleskieffner · 09-24-2006, 07:27 AM

john, safety and the fact you can carry a full size tire inflated.

rexav8r · 09-24-2006, 09:18 AM

I'm interested in this too. I definately want the ability to carry the (inflated) spare up front.

I'm glad you found this info and look forward to hearing pricing info !

Thanks !

gestalt1 · 09-30-2006, 07:39 AM

any new info/ pricing on these?

A Quiet Boom · A Quiet Boom's Garage

I'd just like to know why the cheap NHRA approved poly fuel cells aren't permitted for road racing. I was looking into putting a cell in the '73 and originally figured I'd use a circle track or drag race cell from RCI until I was warned it would not pass tech at a road course. Just about every FIA approved cell I've seen is many times more expensive.

What about building your own cell? I mean those aluminum ones don't lok that hard to make and while I'm not a certified professional welder my good friend is. How would a cell that follows the proper safety criteria and is welded by a certified welder be any less safe than a $1000 manufactured cell?

I really want to build a nice track/weekend car but I'm continually frustrated by the rules for all the different sanctioning bodies. At least with drag racing the safety requirements are nearly identical between NHRA and IHRA. Enough so that it's easy to build a car to pass tech at any track.

But I digress, I'm just venting a bit and don't want to steal the thread, please post back with pricing.

Elombard · 09-30-2006, 09:48 AM

Is it the foam inside? I htought it was mainly for sloshing but maybe it prevents explosion and gas leaks slower?

gestalt1 · 09-30-2006, 10:06 AM

i had a fuel safe cell for a short time. it was just the aluminum case, the bladder was old and needed replacement and i did not have the fill plate. i thought the replaceble bladder would be cheap to replace but it actually was $800-1000 and the fill plate for the 911 was about $300. i ended up selling the cell and buying a normal gas tank. Christian, i did measure up the cell case and made a solid model of it so if you want i can e-mail a file.

A Quiet Boom · A Quiet Boom's Garage

gestalt1.

I'd love the file, is it small enough to email? If so my email is in my profile.

Elombard, the foam reduces vapors which is the greatest explosion risk. By spreading the vapors throughout the foam cells there is less chance of explosion. At least that is my understanding.

gestalt1 · 09-30-2006, 11:22 AM

I'll e-mail a .dxf and a pdf - the files are not that big. i get to it later tonight.
-matt

Brant · 09-30-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A Quiet Boom
I'd just like to know why the cheap NHRA approved poly fuel cells aren't permitted for road racing. I was looking into putting a cell in the '73 and originally figured I'd use a circle track or drag race cell from RCI until I was warned it would not pass tech at a road course. Just about every FIA approved cell I've seen is many times more expensive.

What about building your own cell? I mean those aluminum ones don't lok that hard to make and while I'm not a certified professional welder my good friend is. How would a cell that follows the proper safety criteria and is welded by a certified welder be any less safe than a $1000 manufactured cell?

I really want to build a nice track/weekend car but I'm continually frustrated by the rules for all the different sanctioning bodies. At least with drag racing the safety requirements are nearly identical between NHRA and IHRA. Enough so that it's easy to build a car to pass tech at any track.

But I digress, I'm just venting a bit and don't want to steal the thread, please post back with pricing.

Its because the road racing cells contain bladders and fire resistance. I don't believe the plastic cheap circle tanks are anything more than plastic tanks....

you could use old mik jugs if you just wanted plastic tanks.

I have an aluminum "home made" cell. Yes the outer box of the cell can be home made. but to be safe... to be road race legal.. you will still have to go buy an expensive bladder and attatchment plate. You will have to make your box to fit the bladder and not the other way around if your trying to avoid spending MORE money than a pre-fab unit.

A Quiet Boom · A Quiet Boom's Garage

Ok but if factory steel tanks are permitted in many classes wouldn't a tank made of aluminum (a non sparking metal) be safer? What about modifications to the factory tank, like center fill? Near as I can tell those are legal yet I can't weld up a nice lightweight and IMHO safer aluminum tank? Seems there might be some collusion between the sanctioning bodies and the manufacturers.

I'm still interested in the pricing on the UK cell.

Brant · 10-01-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A Quiet Boom
Ok but if factory steel tanks are permitted in many classes wouldn't a tank made of aluminum (a non sparking metal) be safer? What about modifications to the factory tank, like center fill? Near as I can tell those are legal yet I can't weld up a nice lightweight and IMHO safer aluminum tank? Seems there might be some collusion between the sanctioning bodies and the manufacturers.

I'm still interested in the pricing on the UK cell.

The sanctioning bodies that require a cell will not allow a factory tank. This is basically true for most/all wheel to wheel events.

the drivers ed and sanctioning bodies that allow a factory tank would probably in fact allow a plastic circle track tank or modified non-bladdered tank of aluminum or steel.

I think you could weld up an aluminum tank and do drivers education. I doubt that its really any safer than stock... just a lot of time and alot of money for nearly no gain. The stock tanks don't explode because of sparking metal... They potentially explode or cause fires because in a bad accident they deform and leak. Once that fuel leaks out, its vapors are ignited by things like exhaust headers or ignition spark. The fuel cell bladder is able to flex and bend much more in a bad impact without rupturing or leaking like metal.

brant

charleskieffner · 10-01-2006, 05:35 AM

hey in regard to fuel cells . geiser brothers design and development here in phx arizona builds custom 1/2-1 million(yep big buck) trophy trucks for SCORE OFF ROAD RACING. since each and every vehicle is literally a one off custom incorporating everything they learned performance wise from the prior ones built, fuel cells end up being different configurations and locations. also due to mfg chevy ford dodge etc. and model year.

what they do is build the box for the space out of aluminum and then send ATL/FUEL SAFE blue print of configuration and then the fuel cell company builds the custom bladder to the box.

due to the wars going on and fuel safe buying ATL or vice versa deliveries now are somewhat delayed.

still waiting on prices from the uk.

Brant · 10-01-2006, 05:39 AM

Yes you can have a custom bladder made to any dimension you want.
but if your trying to save money and not spend double... it would be much wiser to make your box to the dimensions of a standard replacement bladder sized.

those custom jobs are 2-3X the cost of the standard bladder.
so then you would have a 1500 fuel cell instead of a 700 fuel cell

brant