Car Audio

I know most folks on the board aren't interested in "big" stereos for their 911s, but I actually have interest in having some good sound in my car. My last vehicle, a 96 Jetta, had awesome sound after I added a subwoofer and a couple of amps.

I can easily add amps and new speakers. But what about a subwoofer? I have found a couple of options - the Car Audio Innovations unit, which is $500 to start (with speakers installed), and there's CarTunes, who did a custom installation in the Chicago area.

Has anyone else installed a sub in their car? I'd like the sub units to remain removeable for racing. Yes, I want it all my way! Don't we all!

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

Mark,

We were chatting about this in another thread. I have a JL Audio Microsub 8.1 in my car. It sits behind the driver's seat, unfastened, and is snug as the proverbial bug in a rug. It is easily moved to the side if you need to adjust the seat or work in the back of the car (i.e. shift linkage).

It's powered with a dedicated amp (133W mono) that I installed under the psgr seat. See pics of the sub at:
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/microsub.html

Email me if you want details and sonic criticisms; I'm really pleased with the setup.

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Roger
'85 Carrera 3.2 Coupe aka "Sputterbug"
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

I have the Car Audio Innovations set-up, and it's great. The only downside is that it restricts the amount you can push the seats back. The one-side-or-the-other options that other people have might address this. Then again, if the sub ins't securely affixed to the car, somehow, I don't imagine it is as effective.

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html

Your concern about secure affixation (?) is certainly valid. However, I can assure you that my sub is VERY effective! I can easily crank it to beyond reasonable levels of bass balance. It's a solid box, made of wood, covered by carpet-like material, ported... and it fits snugly into the rear footwell. Being right behind the seat in a small car like the 911, it gives very visceral punch. No regrets - only $199!

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Roger
'85 Carrera 3.2 Coupe aka "Sputterbug"
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

Cool, cool - those are both pretty cool setups. I'm concerned about being able to move the seat back, since I'm 6'2" - although I drive with the seat perhaps 2" forward of the rearmost position. Jack, does the CAI setup allow that much travel?

And although I don't want to compete, I'm certainly looking for something quite loud and clear and with very deep bass...I was hoping for a 12" sub at the very least, although I understand you can do a lot with a 10" in a good enclosure. I would like to hear 40Hz, loudly.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

Taking up the whole backseat footwells wasn't an option for me and my kids. I think if you really wanted to, a good car audio shop could fab out a piece of wood to fit the wells if you wanted to go that route. I like the micro sub approach. I'm looking to find a place to purchase one of these.

I get more thick deep bass than I would have ever imagined from a 6 1/2 inch powered Bazooka bass tube (Crutchfield $199) Easy to install, easy to remove, like when the targa top is off, so I don't have to worry about it getting stolen. Fits snugly behind the passenger seat.

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Zach
77 911S 3.2

Mark

I would check with Rod Birch about clearance issues. I'm 5'11", and there's exactly enough room for me (I like to be reaching to depress the clutch all the way). However, I have a 73, with aftermarket Recaros, so my situation is probably different than yours.


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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html

I have also found an installation at www.audiooptions.com who are based in Torrance/LA California.

As an aside I bought my own stereo gear from there while holidaying and they were extremely helpful and had very good prices.

From memory, for their installation they custom-made two enclosures (like car audio innovations) for 8" subs in behind the seats.

Let me know how you go and what you decide on. I have a couple of JL Audio 10" subs from my old car, and will probably stick one behind the drivers seat. It should fit because it needs a very small box (~0.6 cu ft), but time will tell. I was going to create a fiberglass back, MDF front enclosure to maximise the usage of space.

One 10" (with 300+ watts) should be WAY more than adequate in a 911. I cranked up the old system with one of the subs and a much smaller amp in my old car (a Peugeot 106) and it managed ~125db on a Radio Shack SPL meter.

What's my point? 'Cause I'm rambling...

Like Sputterbug said, one 8" is probably enough, and JL Audio make fine products. The advantage of making your own enclosure is you can investigate a better/bigger woofer and make something that really integrates well (matched carpet, etc). I would recommend something like a JL Audio 8W6 or Kicker Solobaric 8" with plenty of power, ie 200W+ RMS. You would be really surprised at how much CLEAN power some of these woofers can take if properly installed.

Oooops, just rememebered you have a targa (?). In that case a 10" or two 8" might be a better bet? Just how much bass do you want - what kind of music?


Cam

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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S


[This message has been edited by CamB (edited 06-28-2000).]

I find that one 8" is plenty! Again, this is a really small space we're working with. I dislike exaggerated bass in my music (like you hear in discos - except there it's cool). I need to hear that beater smack the kick drum, tight and loud (80-100Hz), but always balanced! Low 'B' on a 5-string bass? Nice and strong - but leave the windows intact, please!

The biggest problem with the 911 audio stage seems to be low midrange (say, 400-800 Hz). It's all upper mid honk. If you max out the range of freqs being sent to the sub by opening up the crossover all the way (250Hz or so), you don't allow the sub to resonate as effectively at the lower freqs, for which it's really intended. Also, those low mids are directional (deep bass is not), and the sub's isolated placement makes them jump awkwardly out of the stereo field.

I came to a decent compromise on my system by sending about 180Hz and down to the sub, then using the head unit's bass parametric EQ to boost 500Hz by about 6 db. That was the lowest freq available. This fills out the low mids, limits the sub to a reasonably effective range, and keeps the stereo field honest.

More than you wanted to know?!

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Roger
'85 Carrera 3.2 Coupe aka "Sputterbug"
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

Sputterbug

If you are lacking midbass it could be because your door speakers are not well sealed (front wave to back) or because the door is poorly damped.

.....waiting while Cam stops speculating and checks the pics on your site......

Ok, I checked. They seem to be about 5".

Are they amplified separately as well? With the same filter freq (but high pass). That always helps. But making sure that they are solidly mounted and the door cavity s generally sealed from the interior of the car should ensure pretty good midbass.



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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S

True high fidelity has ALWAYS been a priority for me when designing a mobile audio system. Finding a way to install the necessary audio components AND speakers in the trunk or passenger compartment of a 911 is NEVER is. Finding a way to install sub-woofers is a BEAR!

About 10 years ago, I was fortunate enough to come across a guy who was selling his "Zbox" rear dash enclosure. His Zbox enclosure, which is essentially a well engineered fiberglass enclosure that houses (2)8" subwoofer, and a small pair of satellites (left and right) sits on the back dash and displaces the factory dash and backboard. In addition to fitting very well (like a glove)looking VERY good, and being finished in a hardy leatherette material, the low end frequencies it creates is unbelievable! I should also mention that another benefit to the Zbox is that it doesn't steal from what little leg space there is in the back seat of a 911!

I "stole" the Zbox from this guy for $300 and stuck it in my '77 Targa. (I believe the original price was >$550) I was SO impressed with the installation, I purchased another one for my '85 Targa.

The local audio shop I purchased the second one through has since gone out of business, otherise I'd give you their ph#. I recently came across this web page http://www.2phast.com/porsche/index(1).html which demonstrates the use of other Zbox products, so my guess is that Zbox products are still avaialable -- somewhere! (Germany?)

Good luck with whatever solution you end up with!

kai

I'm 6'4" and decided that the seat(?) behind the driver (me) was useless. I had the seat pad removed and had a custom enclosure built into the seat with fiberglass, wood and bondo and covered in a vinyl with a body color matching insert around the sub. The top of the box is about even with the other seatback down so it looks fairly good. It has a Pheonix Gold 10" X-max in it which requires very little volume so it worked perfect in the small enclosure. I'm not really sure how its held in but it isn't moving. Its powered by an Audison VR 209 amplifier. The bass is excellent with very clean,loud,low bass, not at all boomy.

One of the pockets were missing from the door so I had door pods made with built in arm rests. I put a 6.5" MB Quart in them. I also had kickpanels made to house a 4" and tweeter Quart set. I kinda wished that I would have just put all the speakers in the doors but they're not annoying enough to change them. I have an Audison VR 404 XR running them. I'm also using a Audio Control EQX to control the signals from an Alpine CD head unit.

The last couple of years I've considered tearing it out to save a 100+ pounds but its one of those things where its hard to go back to not having even though I don't listen to it very often anymore.

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'76 911S

'80 924 M471

I would check out http://www.caraudioinnovations.com/suben.htm

I found this link in the back of my Excellence magazine. It is similar to Roger's setup, but is one piece instead of two. It looks really good to me. I think that it only works on > 1974 911's though.

Check it out.

Bill


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William Armentrout
1973 911T
2.7 carerra rs specs
www.geocities.com/william_armentrout

Bill,

I pondered over that solution for awhile. It seems the installer has made a name for himself among a subset of the Rennlist clan. He even did a "US Tour" installing the system in people's cars. The subs are mounted on an open panel, and somehow find a chamber in which to resonante by utilizing the space behind them when they are mounted. Strange, but if it works it works. The subs probably sound good, but they are expensive - $500 for 2x8" and $300 for 1x8". Sounds like the dreaded Porsche Tax to me!

I am impressed by some of the systems that people are discussing here, so I won't tout mine very loudly... EXCEPT to say that, for the money and ease of installation, it ROCKS. One 8" sub in a ported box, designed specifically for tight-space applications, fits without drilling and comes out when you want it to, costs under $200.

My door speakers are sealed well - good point, though. The mid bass is really OK, but I have very exacting taste (everyone says this, I know) since I'm a musician as well as a music lover. It's more a matter of balance, and of avoiding spikes and troughs in the dynamic range.

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Roger
'85 Carrera 3.2 Coupe aka "Sputterbug"
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

Roger, I think the JL minisub might just be the place to start...where did you get yours?

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

Mark,

I have a '84 Cabriolet with an incredible installation. There are 2 8" or 10" subs (not sure about the size) mounted in a fiberglass enclosure underneath the rear seats. It looks like the entire rear seat base has been replaced with a fabbed piece. I bought the car about 5 years ago and this was already installed. Driven by 3 Nakamichi 300x4 amps (under the seats & hood) with a Pioneer CD deck and 50 disc changer. BTW, the changer fits beautifully under the front hood. Speakers are Sony seperates in the front doors and rear sides. The nice thing about the sub installation is that it doesn't impact the rear seats. I can still put my kids back there!

Mark,

I bought mine locally. JLAudio has a dealer search link on their site... I checked your profile, saw that you are in Cincy - did a search on that city - here's what came back:

Custom Car of Cincinnati
418 East Court Street
Cincinnati, OH
45202
513-381-3800

Good Vibes
Car Tunes (Corp)
9850 Princeton-Glendale
Cincinnati, OH
45246
513-942-1700

Gene's Auto Sound Speedometer &
Cruise Control
500 Ohio Pike
Cincinnati, OH
45255
513-528-5050

Sound Waves
1710 E. Kemper Road
Cincinnati, OH
45246
513-772-9280

Good luck!

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Roger
'85 Carrera 3.2 Coupe aka "Sputterbug"
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

I cannot recommend the JL products highly enough and you really should investigate them (ie have a listen!).

Try www.jlaudio.com to see if they have the review of Sputterbug's box. From memory, it was very very highly praised.

And come back to us with what the dealer tells you, as these guys can get a bit carried away sometimes.

Cam

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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S

Just a thought,

mash the loud pedal and that's all the "music" I need!!!!!