Is this a REAL GREAT deal???

I just left a guys house. He has a 69 911 coupe. It has a "s" body with aftermarket turbo flares installed (great job). With a "T" engine that he confirms was rebuilt 3 years ago and never ran, it has weber carbs. The tranny shifts well.

The car is apart! It has the RSR front and rear spoilers, interior is complete, as well as a COMPLETE 85 Carrera interior, sport seats included.

The car has 14" fuchs on it and "spare 15" fuchs that are straight and in great shape.

He has ALL manuals including service manuals.

The bad parts are the floor would need replacing, and I'm not sure the engine even works as it is out of the car!

This car looks GREAT to me, he is a friend of my Dads and is too busy to do anything with it. He won't give me a bottom price but indicates that I can get it for around $3000 Cdn, so around $2000 US Dollars.

Is this a GREAT deal?

Shawn

It sounds to me like the car is worth at least that much in parts. I think the manuals for that year are hard to come by.

When you say the floor is shot, do you mean it's rusted through? If rust is showing up there, I would think it would be in a lot of other places as well. It would make me wonder if the body/frame aren't totally shot.

Like I said, it's probably worth that much in parts, but I don't think I'd get my hopes too high on restoring it, particularly if it's rusted through.

Good Luck,

Bill Wagner

Shawn,

I'm not sure whether to call it good, great, etc. without a few more details, but let me say it does sound like it is worth US $2000 without even knowing if the engine runs! There are a few things I think you should check before tackling a project that can/could get overwhelming if 'problems' crop up along the way to putting it back together and getting it running. Without 'insulting' the guy, or even suggesting there is anything wrong, and certainly no suggestion of any misrepresentation, I think you should ask the guy if you can check a few things, based on the recommendation of an enthusiast for the early, pre-'74 cars ... if you have any jack stands, take them with you when you go to make the investigation. It would be useful to have a helper along, but you could get by alone.

1. Ask if it is OK to jack up the car, put it on jack stands, and remove the wheels and tires ... if you don't have a set of 4 jack stands, 1 or 2 will do to just get one side of the car at a time.

2. If the transaxle is out of the car along with the engine, look on the bottom rib, and get the serial number and type number (9x1/xx) of the transaxle, as well as the serial and type number of the ngine. Check the VIN at all of the locations noted in the owner's manual.

3. With the car up in the air, but wheels still on, see if all four wheels rotate freely without dragging brake pads. Check the brake fluid reservoir to see if it is full, empty, or somewhere in between. Spin each wheel and step on the brake pedal to see if all 4 calipers function, then rotate the wheel again to see if the pads 'back off' after application of pressure and releasing. Test all 4 wheels.

4. Remove the wheels and inspect all 4 brake calipers ... a '69 'S' had the same vented disks your '77 has, the same rear cast iron 'M' calipers, and aluminum alloy 'S' calipers in the front. All pads should be the same size as in your '77.

5. There should be an aluminum 'radiator-type' external oil cooler in the right front fender well, behind the headlamp bucket, with lines along the right side rocker panel.

6. Check the condition and type of CV-joints ... '69 models should have obro's, not Nadella's. The outline of the axle flanges on the transaxle are round for Lobro's, and shaped like a capital letter 'H' for Nadella's. Also, Nadella's do NOT have a corrugated rubber grease boot like Lobro's!

7. Check both front and rear suspensions for the presence of front and rear anti-roll bars. 15 mm bars, front and rear, were standard on all '69 911S models! The shocks and front struts should be red-orange Koni's ... standard on all '69 911S models! The 'spare' Fuchs wheels that were 6" x 15" on all '69 911S models.

8. Check the contents of the tool kit in the trunk, if present. A wrench for changing the fan belt should be included ... and you should be able to turn over the engine with that wrench applied to the alternator fan nut ... if the engine isn't siezed up!

Good luck! Hopefully, your investigation will not turn up any 'nasty' surprises!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Warren's suggestions are very sound.

My thinking is that it is definitely a great deal if you're looking to part the car out. If restoring it is your goal, then the value of the parts is less important than the total cost of fixing the rust, repairing or rebuilding the engine, etc. It's difficult, but you've got to try to ascertain why someone else has given up on the project midstream. As often as not, this can mean that the previous owner learned that he had a losing proposition, money-wise, and is trying to cut his losses and get out. Take care that you don't buy his expensive problems -- even for pennies on the dollar.

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html

Thanks for the replies and tips so far.

I am really hoping to rebuild it, as 69 is the year I was born, but parting out is always a possibility

BILL: the floor is not rusted through but, it is starting. The owner had left it on jack stands for a long time and says this is where it started. I wouldn't say the floor is shot, but I would replace it if rebuilding. No other parts are showing any noticable rust (battery boxes etc)

WARREN: Are you busy? Why don't you jump on a plane and come visit. . I think you would be a handy guy to have around.

Right now the car is in a trailer. It is just the shell, no interior, engine , tranny, nothing. Can I do the brake check? If so I will, The front mounted rad IS there, I checked already. With the CV joints, I will check them, they are out of the car, what is the difference? I will turn the engine over by hand, should I lubricate it in any way first? It has been sitting a long time. And what way does it turn?

The guy like I say is a friend of my Dads and is considered very honest, He has had it for 6 years in and has over $5000 into it. But he just doesn't have time, just bought new house, new baby, and wants to buy a boat. With this project I have to take his word on it.

If I get this be ready for lots of posts over the next few years. We will tackle this as a TEAM haha.

Thanks again

Shawn

It does sound like you might be able to part out the parts for that price, so I'd say its a good deal from that perspective.
But, if you are going to rebuild the car, it may not be such a good deal. It really depends on what you want. If you will have fun doing a project, it may not be bad. If your goal is just to have a nice '69 911, it may not be such a good deal, esp. if its a 911T. You can get a very nice, solid, original 69 T for pretty cheap, probably between $7,000 and $9,000, maybe even less if you look. If you buy the disassembled car that you are looking at for $2,000, you can EASILY end up spending a great deal of money to get the car right, esp. if you are already talking about replacing floor pans (rust is like termites, you see a little and you can be sure there will be more!), and are talking about an engine that is out of the car that you cannot drive. Does he have records for the "rebuild?"
So, I think it really depends on what you want, a nice 69T or a project. If you just want the former, I'd probably pass on the car you describe. If you want the latter, maybe its a decent deal. But, in either case, unless you can confirm through records, compression test, leakdown, getting it running, etc. the condition of the engine, I would not say its a "great" deal (of course, that's just a gut reaction based on the limited information provided).

Hi,
Unless you *really* want to restore the car yourself for whatever reason I would stay away from it.
You will spend at least twice as much restoring it, as you would pay for a mint example.
The reality of restoring an old car is far from the romantic vision one can start off with. ;-)
Even selling it as parts is hassle I wouldnt want.
Just my tuppence worth.


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911 2.7S Targa
email:alex@cascade.f9.co.uk