2nd Gear Woes

Hi all,

I have been reading the mass of archived (and current) threads on the 915 transmission and its suite of 'classic' problems. I have an '85 Carrera with a very stubborn 2nd gear, and I've been looking for things to try in hopes of alleviating the situation. At least I'm surely not alone in experiencing the symptoms.

I have not been able to drain and replace the oil with Swepco (first with cheaper stuff to flush the mung out), due to not having the correct tools for removing the plugs. I hope to try that soon. In the meantime, I got up the nerve to try adjusting the shift linkage via the panel behind the seats.

Boy is that a touchy process! One little notch in any direction and the whole action changes dramatically. Luckily, I've got it back to at least as good as it has been, but the problem remains. This is what I noticed while playing with the coupler and linkage parts:

When I move the shifter towards 2nd (car is parked), it enters the gate but then hits what feels like an obstruction. A bit more of a yank and it "clunks" into gear. It seems like the shift rod assembly is caught up on something, since it pauses in the area where it disappears from the adjustment compartment through the rubber grommet (?) into the depths of the tranny, then it pops out with an audible clunk in response to the greater pressure.

The rod itself (behind the coupler) appears to have only a bit of dried and worn grease on it. Is this part supposed to be lubed? Also, upon inspecting the clutch cable and some of the mechanism under the car (I'm a novice at this), it was found to also be rather dry and caked with old, sticky grease. Should these parts also be fully lubricated?

I appreciate any help. What's strange is that the shift to 2nd is not *always* bad; sometimes it goes right in. I have so far been at a loss to isolate whatever subtleties (engine speed, shift pattern variances, pauses after clutching etc.) are responsible for the successful shifts. From what I have read, it doesn't seem like a synchro problem because it never grinds, and it also happens when the car is just sitting there. That's why I think its a more basic mechanical problem then a worn synchro (and yes, I have one of those - 1st gear).

Thanks for reading!

Roger http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

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'85 Carrera 3.2 coupe
Guards Red/Black Leather

A couple of suggestions, before doing any more experimentation or trying to adjust the shifter: 1. Replace all of the shift rod bushings, the 'cup' under the shifter, the rod bushing just behind the shifter mounting location, and the pair of bushings in the coupler. The two bushings forward need lots of moly grease applied, especially on the shift rod an inch or so on either side of the bushing; the coupler operates dry. The shift rod coming out of the transaxle needs no grease, since there is plenty of gear oil just behind that seal in the nosecone (assuming your gear oil is up to the normal level) ... what the dried 'goop' is a bit of a mystery, but most likely undercoating overspray. Clean the shift rod thoroughly with spray brake degreaser/cleaner when you have the coupler off for bushing replacement. 2. Replace the clutch cable, clevis, and clevis retaining clip, making sure the cable is well lubricated with moly grease as you feed it into the guide tube, and pay attention to the proper routing of the Bowden tube (the plastic-covered sheath) from transaxle to firewall.

As far as the filler and drain plugs for the 915, I have been told the hex drive bit needed for the later models is a 10 mm. You might try the 10 mm Allen wrench in the toolkit for driving the sparkplug socket to see if it fits the drain plug.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 05-27-2000).]

I had a 1980 SC with the same problems but not quite as bad. I was told that a hard 1-2 shift was a side effect of the worn 1st gear synchro and a short shift kit makes it worse.

I just got used to mine over time. The guy that bought that car from me didn't seem concerned.

Thanks Warren and Lee for your replies.

As for the worn synchro, that's what I was told when I bought the car and it certainly bears out in reality. I have learned to baby that gear and as long as I've come to a stop (or within a few mph) it's no big deal.

The repair work mentioned all makes good sense. I'll tell you though, you guys have a way of just running down a list of things to replace as if it's no great shakes! I had the shifter "undressed" last week and I was peering under it with a flashlight. The cup did look kind of tired to my untrained eye. I have NO idea how to dismantle the shifter safely in order to replace the cup and other parts. I live in fear of dismantling things to the point where I have to call in a flatbed to save my a$$!

The tranny drain/fill plugs are not 10mm on my '85. The toolkit does not contain anything that fits; the correct size is 70mm according to Pelican, who sell a socket attachment for that purpose. In any case, it's a large diameter hex opening.

The clutch cable "schmutz" (hey, it IS a German car) really looks like dirty and ineffective grease to me, not undercoating. You know, grease that hasn't been properly replenished over time and just wears/dries out.

Thanks for the continued discussion. I have found this forum to be truly awesome for learning about my car!

Roger

Whoops, make that 17mm for the hex nut gadget. Pelican #911TR-915-01...

Roger

to add a bit more
check the front end of your shift rod (the for/aft rod between the tranny and shifter junk). the stub on the front end can work loose, its just pressed into the tube. i had that one - drilled a 1/4 hole close to the tube end and put in a s.s. bolt very tight to hold it firm until eng/tran out and rod out for weld. also check the bushing cup on the end of the stub, its secured with a set screw just like the shift coupler - and can loosen up. also check the front end of the clutch cable. the clevis pin rides in a bushing in the clutch pedal lever where it attaches. found one with a missing bushing and clevis pin worn 1/2 way through - very hard to adjust cluth and subsequent hell on syncros. finally, to repeat previous stuff - replace bushings!! the shift coupler dissasembly is very easy if you have a good vise.

Yes, the plugs are 17mm Allen. I just saw someone else's note advising that any bolt wiht a 17mm head can be made into a special tool to remove those plugs. They shoudl not be on very tight. Shouldn't, but probably are.

Taking stuff like shift parts apart and changing bushings is just a matter of looking at the drawings you can find and reading the procedures. Look at and think about the parts as you remove them. Keep a tidy work area. You'll do just fine. No tow truck is going to come and take your car away.

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'83 SC

It must be the G-50's that have the 10 mm drains. That seems VERY ODD to me that Porsche management would have approved the change to a drain plug like the old air-cooled VW's used to use, without providing a tool to remove it!!! My car has 19 mm male plugs, which, of course, can be removed with the lug wrench ... the same as drain plugs for engine and dry sump tank. At least most auto stores have the 17 mm Allen drive in stock for all of the millions of VW air-cooled transaxles out there!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Superman, Warren.
Like Sputterbug, I am going to replace all the shift bushings. I would like to find some drawings of the area we’re talking about, I’m pretty good about being observant, but I like to see what’s there before starting. Is there somewhere on the web I can find them or do I need to get a service manual? Thanks -Andy

I can't seem to locate my Haynes right now, but I'll admit there is probably some helpful pictures or drawings. Of course, the factory manual would be excellent. There's a procedure too. I think there is a related Pelican Parts Tech Article.

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'83 SC

I've read some bad things about the Haynes manuals. Are they any good? they're cheap enough Are they helpfull for this sort of thing?
thanks -Andy

Gentlemen,

I readjusted my shift linkage this weekend, and while the 2nd gear issue still exists, the rest of the gears are like "buttah." The topic has been widely covered here, but after fumbling through the process several times before, I encountered a key to getting it just right. Since different hints help different people, let me humbly offer this in hopes of helping someone.

In order to do it right, and better still - right the FIRST time - you MUST uncover the shift lever. It's easy to put back together.

First, remove the shift knob. If you have a leather boot, untuck it from the base and shimmy it off. Watch for a small rubber retaining ring that either holds the leather or the rubber boot to the top of the shifter; set it aside. Untuck the rubber boot and shimmy it off. Your shifter is now an exposed metal tube, and you can see how it lies in its casing.

The key, then, is fore/aft alignment. This was very tricky for me until I uncovered the shifter. Follow the linkage adjustment instructions (loosen clamp; turn shift rod clockwise by holding the coupler; place shifter gently against the stop on 1st/2nd gear side). Now, adjust fore and aft as follows:

On the right side of the shifter casing, there is a spring mechanism in the center and two metal 'tabs' (one above it for 5th, one below for reverse). You will see that the shifter must be pressed horizontally against the spring mechanism, and then pushed either up or down to 'catch' on the respective tab for 5th or reverse. The key to proper fore/aft is to center the shifter exactly so it will perfectly engage the spring when moved horizontally to the right while in neutral.

So place the shifter gently against the left side, and center it so that the motion described above will occur. It seems obvious (and perhaps is to many of you), but until I disrobed the shifter it was not possible to see this subtlety. Adjusting the shifter thusly got the linkage perfect the first time I did it.

I apologize for wasting bandwith on a topic so widely discussed, but if one person does this adjustment more easily as a result, than so be it!

Thanks to everyone for your help and knowledge.

Roger

I had the same problem. I replaced the shifter ball cup bushing with a Weltmeister model, and I replaced the shift rod coupler. The coupler bushings had fallen apart and were causing most of my problems.

As far as adjustment goes, here is what I did. First thing, go find a friend and have him sit in the back seat with a 4mm wrench. Next, use your right arm to reach back to the coupler and rotate it to the right side of the car. Hold this position with your right hand. With your left hand, move the shifter to the left side of the car until it lightly bumps the rubber stop. Then, slightly move the shifter toward first gear. Do not engage 1st gear. Then, while you are holding the coupler and the shifter in these positions, have your friend tighten the coupler bolt.

I tried this, and my shifter was exactly where it needed to be. I discovered this after many attempts, but it really works. I am going to try Swepco in the future as well.



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William Armentrout
1973 911T
2.7 carerra rs specs

Oddly enough, I have been guessing about what exactly the "bushings" are. That sounds stupid, but I have never heard them described. Are they the pieces inside the coupler that actually come into contact with the hinged part of the rod?

I ordered new bushings for the whole setup and will see for myself when they arrive, but I just thought I'd point out my ignorance! In any case, I didn't see any parts that looked shot, except perhaps the cup on the shifter base (but that was very hard to see).

Roger

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'85 Carrera 3.2 coupe
Guards Red/Black Leather
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

Roger,

The ball cup bushing is located directly below the shift lever. The ball on the end of the shifter lever "pops" into this bushing. I have heard that this bushing can be prone to splitting. However, the one on my 73 was in great shape prior to replacement with a Weltmeister one. Replacement is simple, but you will have to remove the top spring loaded plate from your shift tower, and also the lateral pin that goes through your shift lever. Once you do this, you should be able to lift your shift lever enough to remove the bushing. There is an access hole on the right of the shift tower that is just big enough to get the bushing through.

This bushing lays inside of a metal cylinder that hooks to the shift rod. The shift rod travels back to the transmission. The shift rod coupler connects the shift rod to the transmission. The shift rod coupler is located between the rear seats, on the floor, under an access panel. The coupler will be inside of a rubber boot that is connected to the back of the metal wall that divides the cockpit from the engine.

You can slide the rubber boot towards the front of the car far enough to expose the coupler. The bushings(2) are located on the left and right sides of the coupler. You should be able to tell if they need replacement or not by visual inspection. The rubber boot is kinda difficult to reattach to the wall, so you may want to take your time reattaching it to prevent rippage.

My car was having the same problems you discussed...I was having difficulty shifting, and was missing gears on a regular basis. I purchased a complete, new shift rod coupler. You can simply purchase 2 new bushings though, and use your old coupler, but I did not know how difficult it was to "press" in the new bushings, so I opted for the whole thing. My coupler bushings were completely gone, allowing for metal to metal contact, and "play". Now, after replacement, the shifter is almost as good as new. Good luck with your repair!

Thanx to all you folks for this discussion. It will help someone since this procedure is still in my future.

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'83 SC

First, I'd like to thank Warment for his instructions about replacing the shifter ball/cup bushing. I completed the task this evening.

Boy, was that NOT fun! I ended up dropping the bushing inside the shift tower not once, but twice... it rolled around under the "eaves" and was very difficult to fish out. I had the shifter completely removed as well. The disassembly was easy, although one must be very careful when removing the spring loaded plate - the nuts/washers will literally fly off if you do not apply adequate counterpressure with your hand. The springs pack a real punch when they unload!

The trouble with this job was the very minute angle and depth adjustments required to take things out and put things in. The bushing itself was a real pain to pop on over the ball and then place into the cup below. It was OK to get into the cup first, but then I couldn't push the shifter into it. I had to wedge it between the ball and the side wall of the tower, shifter pointed at an angle towards 1st/2nd, and jam it in. Then, getting the whole apparatus into the cup was reasonable.

In short, I don't think my old bushing was in bad shape. I haven't driven the car yet, but the shifting action feels similar. Trouble is, with this bushing it's tough to see its condition prior to removal, unlike the coupler bushings which are easily viewed. I have replacements for those, but I'm not gonna bother with them yet because the existing ones look OK to me. If there's any play, its fore/aft as opposed to lateral.

When shifting to 2nd gear, the shift rod pulls out of the transmission towards the front of the car. When doing so, I believe there is some resistance in that forward motion that's the root of my problem. My next step is a tranny oil change.

Stay tuned!

Roger

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'85 Carrera 3.2 coupe
Guards Red/Black Leather
http://www.rogerplacer.net/911/

Roger (aka Sputterbug):
I was going over some old posts & happened upon your second gear saga. My '85 Carrera from time to time experiences the same cranky 2nd gear shift problem as does (did) yours.
Tell me then... what is the outcome of all your work on that 915 transmission's shifter?? Is it okay now?
Thanks for the update.
regards, jlex.

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