Roll bar

Chilling in VT · 10-14-2006, 10:58 AM

I am purchasing a roll bar for my car for a winter project. I am currently looking at TRE's Clubsport 2, a DAS weekender and the Safety Devices bars. I am leaning towards the TRE bar but would love to hear some opinions. Is anyone here using any of the above? For a baseline, I have a 1973 non sunroof coupe and hope to run 5-6 DE's per summer. I do not care if I lose the rear seats. I seem to be sliding down the slippery slope. Thanks.
Joe

Tyson Schmidt · 10-14-2006, 11:16 AM

The TRE bar is half the weight, and will mount in a much more structurally sound manner. So it will do more for rigidity to the chassis than the DAS. The Safety Devices would be the second choice.

The DAS is popular because it mounts with hand tools and doesn't require any welding, but it's heavy, and does little for rigidity.

Jeff Alton · 10-14-2006, 11:57 AM

I had a DAS and sold it. Restircted the movement of my seats and just was not that fond of where it mounted. I bought and OG Racing one and custom fit it in and welded it in place, much happier now!

Cheers

Steve RSM · 10-14-2006, 12:34 PM

I had the same problem with the DAS Sport in a 911SC. Could not put the seat all the way back in the sliders and could not recline it far enough either. Went to a floor mounted Race Seat to solve the problem.

Steve

Facey · Facey's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Chilling in VT
I am purchasing a roll bar for my car for a winter project. I am currently looking at TRE's Clubsport 2, a DAS weekender and the Safety Devices bars. I am leaning towards the TRE bar but would love to hear some opinions. Is anyone here using any of the above? For a baseline, I have a 1973 non sunroof coupe and hope to run 5-6 DE's per summer. I do not care if I lose the rear seats. I seem to be sliding down the slippery slope. Thanks.
Joe

is the TRE cage a bolt in cage? because i'm looking to do a bunch more auto-x's and hopefully some DE's its most likely a good idea.

would love to see a picture.

Tyson Schmidt · 10-14-2006, 01:40 PM

The TRE bar is a replica of the factory rollbars used in the RSR in the early seventies.

It is a bolt-in, but only after welding in some threaded plates for the forward legs. The rear legs bolt into the rear seat outer pivot points.

Chilling in VT · 10-14-2006, 02:58 PM

Thanks guys. The TRE bar just moved to the top of the list.

songhoh · 10-14-2006, 04:49 PM

I have one of the TRE bars. Perfect fit and finish. Couldn't be happier with this purchase.

Wil Ferch · 07:16 PM

Without taking ANYTHING away from the excellent TRE bar....I think this is a biased slam on the DAS bar.....remember that there is NO welding required of the DAS bar....an important consideration for some. This allows a completely reversible installation. I also like the cross bar that angles a bit backwards, in a gentle "U" shape, that allows a bit more recline room. I have a DAS bar and think it's a fine piece. Greg Gulik has a Pelican tech article that speaks to the main roll bar hoop feet interfering with max rear seat travel...and some re-profiling of the feet allows a bit more rearward travel for those where it makes a difference.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_rollbar_install/911_rollbar_install2.htm

I've helped a friend install a Safety Devices cage...both front and rear sections. I was impressed with how "tight" it fit against the inside surfaces of the car... from certain viewing angles you almost couldn't see it. I was not so impressed with the terrible fit ( the rear section diagonals were "off" by more than 3"... ), and I was even less impressed with the importer, Stable Energy's response on "making right" ( advising us to use a porta-power to straighten the mishapen piece back into spec). It took long phone calls with England to make things right and get a proper rear section sent.

The Safey Devices is nice if you need to remove any portion of the rear section for access...or the ability to have a rear cage section only ..or a full cage, which can be added later or at the time of initial installation.

I think any one of these should be OK for DE work.......any cage with a front section makes me nervous for a dual-purpose street/race car..as there is head-banging danger. On the track, you have the protection offered by a helmet AND roll bar padding. The padding ( alone) may not be safe for a street driven car sans helmet. This would sway me to the DAS or TRE.

- Wil

NoLift911 · 10-14-2006, 07:33 PM

"I've helped a friend install a Safety Devices cage...both front and rear sections. I was impressed with how "tight" it fit against the inside surfaces of the car... from certain viewing angles you almost couldn't see it. I was not so impressed with the terrible fit ( the rear section diagonals were "off" by more than 3"... ), and I was even less impressed with the importer, Stable Energy's response on "making right" ( advising us to use a porta-power to straighten the mishapen piece back into spec). It took long phone calls with England to make things right and get a proper rear section sent."

I actually had the exact same issue with the TRE bar. After waiting for about 3 months for the bar it did not fit. They had a run of bars that they had used a bad jig for. Not a real big deal but mine were off pretty far. I took it to a local shop and they were not comfortable using a porta power on the bar in case it weakened the welds.

I sent the bar back and TRE refunded. I am sure the jigs have been corrected and I have heard good things about the bars, however it did not work out for me. Shipping roll bars back and forth across the country is not only expensive buy annoying. Be sure you check the bar (any bar) for fit if it is being shipped to you. Most are shipped bare and they get pretty beat up.

-Jeff

pieterk · 10-14-2006, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyson Schmidt
It is a bolt-in, but only after welding in some threaded plates for the forward legs. The rear legs bolt into the rear seat outer pivot points.

And it's a magnificent installation. The welded-in plates reinforce the mounting points, which I don't think any other bolt-ins have. Short of a custom welded cage, I'm guessing this is probably the strongest option available. Certainly some of the other roll bars I've seen are less soundly attached.

There is also an option with the TRE bar for welded steel tabs that attach the sides of the bars to the B pillar at the upper seatbelt bolt, thereby tying the bar into the chassis at two more points, and lending additional stiffness to the upper chassis. I've meant to take pictures of this and post, since I think mine is one of the first cars to feature the new bars with the tabs. If there's interest I'll try to find my stupid digital camera's crappy battery tomorrow and take some shots.

Dave 86 930 Fl · 10-15-2006, 04:45 AM

I installed the DAS in my 86 930 ... Very simple installation and no welding required. The main reason to install a roll bar was to create adequate mounting points for harnesses. Secondary benefit was for safety in case of rollover. After a trial fit, I had the bar powder coated a gloss black.

charleskieffner · 10-15-2006, 04:51 AM

my das bar fit perfect despite my cab somewhat deforming over 20 years. had a little bit of a time fitting passenger rear in. line up for bolt did take some manpower to finally get into place. what i would like to see despite head banging issue, since i wear my 5 points all the time, is das or someone come up with cage setup for cabs. have been upside down numerous times. and it aint fun!!!! lucky to walk away from a jeep and scout that had roll bars but front caved in on us.

have been upside down in caged vehicles and pretty much popped the harnesses asap and fell to roof, crawled out and pushed vehicle over asap so as not to loose all the fluids. check fluid levels and go like hell again!

my best one and i wasnt EVEN driving was 3 complete rollovers in a CJ-5 with cage and highbacks and harnesses. landed right side up, but got my bell rung pretty good! had we not had a cage , i may not be writing this. so cages rank at the top of my list for safety. if someone doesnt come up with one in a kit form, i guess down the road we will fab one up. the BMW video on the racing forum convinced me it CAN happen any time and any place. that bimmer guy is one lucky guy!

Wil Ferch · 10-16-2006, 08:50 AM

Charles:
In your situation , I would opt for the combined front/rear sections of a Safety Devices cage....I believe there is one made for your model of car....or ask if the Targa version is the ticket. The owner of the business..."Tom"..in England, will give you the straight skinny. Stable Energies may now also...but you know..."burned-once"....

- Wil

Wil Ferch · 10-16-2006, 08:51 AM

Hey Dave....Those high $ Cobra seats look nice and *seem* to offer increased headroom...any reports on these?

- Wil

Par911 · 10-16-2006, 09:08 AM

I have the TRE bar, and I absolutely love it!! Great craftmanship went into making the bar, and it is lighter than any other option out ther IMO. I'd buy another one, if I had another 911, in a heartbeat.

charleskieffner · 10-16-2006, 09:24 AM

once i can get my visa card out of low lunar orbit, from all the other things i have done to car, a cage and fuel cell are in like flint! its safe and fabbing the front portion from roll bar hoop forward and down, along front of windshield, and below dash isnt a big deal. its just 4130 and some measurements and time. working w/patricks on this will make it a breeze to fit under cab top w/FIA padding on it.

on my SCORE LEGAL CLASS 8 CHEVY we opted out on door bars. reason giant PITA to get in and out of seats with a cold corona! LOL! actually getting into any hi-bolster seat is a pain. im not taking my car to full race level and down the abyss! but as mentioned before if the BMW crash video doesnt put the fear of god into you nothing will. i still enjoy taking my 911 on highway jaunts and i dont want to gve up spare tire. advanced fuelsytems in the UK make a rally fuel cell that full size inflated tire will fit into for rally cars. e-mailed them and like typical english they didnt e me back with costs. hell of a way to run a biz!

Porsche virgin · 10-16-2006, 09:38 AM

Here are my $0.02:

I'm in the same boat as you, Joe. I do a lot of autox and I'll probably do 4-6 DEs per year. (After having a taste a month ago, I starting running down the slippery slope and I've lost my footing.)

I'm leaning towards the DAS weekender bar right now, for the reasons Dave stated. 1) harness mount, 2) rollover protection.

If I get more into DE, I can always remove the DAS bar easily and switch to a full cage. Alternatively, if I get more into DE and want a dedicated racer, I can return my car to stock and sell the bar separately.

Chilling in VT · 10-16-2006, 09:49 AM

Here is a pic of the TRE bar.

The harness guides are no longer available.

charleskieffner · 10-16-2006, 10:09 AM

any cage (front portion) can be added to any bar. either you have to weld. save the freight and find fab shop who KNOWS what there doing or do it yourself if you have welder and tube bender. the SECRET is not burning the hell out of seats dash carpet etc.

on class 8 trucks and pre runners cabs are cut off, cage installed, cab welded back on. im not real keen on bolt in units. have seen those go squish in baja bugs before and wanna be jeeps.