Speaking of super cars

What do you guys think about what is happening to the 911? Do you think Porsche is really transfering the 911 spirit to the Boxter?

I don't like the 996 at all, and the Boxter is no more than a modern 914. The 911 died when the last 993 rolled off the line. As a matter of fact, on of our club members has a 993 C4 with plates that read "LAST 911".

The 996 is probably technically a great car, numbers wise, and I'm sure is a blast to drive.
But, it doesn't light my fuse at all. I mean, I just don't get excited when I see one on the road. To me, it completely lacks the sensuality of the older 911s (even up to the 993). I don't like the slab sides, the lack of flares, etc. Its just not really visually exciting. I don't lust after it or aspire to ever own one (unlike the previous 911s, which I lusted after and aspired to own for many years)
If a 996 and a clean SC or pre-90 Carrera were parked next to each other in a parking lot, I would stop and look at the SC or Carrera, but would not really give a second glance to the 996.
Again, I'm sure its a great car, but it just does not spark my interest or imagination.

I really think that you can Engineer the fun and excitement out anything ...the 996.

s

I think that Porsche got the 911 design right only twice: the pre-74 models (especially the Carrera RS) and then, when they finally solved the bumper problem, the 993.

That said, the engineering achievements and steady technological progress make this more of a poofy aesthetic discussion than anything else. By all accounts, a 996 turbo is the best 911 ever, when it comes to actual performance. But looks do matter, to some of us, and -- to me -- the 993 and the early 911s are the best looking of the 37-years-long litter.

The 550, too, is a great looking car. All the other models are great cars -- they just don't have particularly compelling looks.

And to irritate people further, the 550 was the only convertible (Targa or otherwise) that doesn't look silly.

My opinions, nothing more.

All right, now you can all beat me up after school.

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 07-11-2000).]

I agree that the '73 RS (or maybe the RSR)is the best looking 911 ever. It just looks light, quick and powerful (which of course it is!)
I also agree that second best is probably a 993 Carrera 2S or 4S, with the wide body, but no tail.
I think Porsche did a pretty good job on the post-74 big bumpers, much, much better than most car makers. But, yes, the earlier cars are prettier, to my eyes.
As far as the 74 on cars, I don't really like the pre-77 narrow body cars, because the narrow bodies make the big bumpers proportionally even bigger. The '78-'89 cars look pretty well balanced to me, esp. the Turbos and the '89 Speedster.
I also agree that most 911 convertibles are not that great looking (although probably great fun to drive!), with the exception of the '89 Speedster, which looks really cool to me. The 996 Convertible, to me, is the worst of all of the convertibles. Don't think the 993 convertible looks so great either.
Again, just opinions!

There was a big gap at Porsche from the end of the 1973 year until they removed the accordian bumpers, remember guys this is all personal opinion. The SC's and Carrera cars to me are butt ugly but I'm sure there are a bunch of folks the can't stand the looks of my 71 911RS "Hot Rod" but thats cool, I don't want everyone driving around in something that looks like MY car. And yes I think Porsche has sold out, anyone remember the 350 SL Mercedes and how cool they were compared to the 450 SL boat. Our roads have changed, our cars have changed, my eye has not.

Please, don't read if you get offended easily...

First off, a lot of people ***** about how Porsche went to watercooling...well, look back...the 959 was watercooled and the most powerful car Porsche produced in the early 80's.
Just how many oil coolers can you put on a car before it is kind of pointless to worry about weight. The more power you make, the more you need cooling. While Porsche has done a good job about keeping the temps down on the 993 turbo, they just couldn't do much more to ensure that the engine would last that long. Let us face it, oil coolers only are old technology. Water cooling will make the new engines last so much longer. The heads are now being able to be cooled properly, as well as other internal parts.

On to the current topic...the looks of things. I don't like the new headlights. Something else could have been done here...but it is saving Porsche a lot of money doing it this way...one wire set goes to the lights and it is used on both current production cars. The body of the new 911...996...while a lot different, is one of the most aerodynamic bodies to be produced. It does have some ugliness to it, but if you look at it long enough, you will see it has a lot more character than most other cars that are being produced now. Porsche is, of course, trying to make it so the car will go faster.

I know most of you are "Porsche Purists," but cars evolve if they are to be kept. If you keep an old design and never change it, it gets boring and the world is full of cars that look the same even if it is a new car as opposed to a 10 year old car.

If I were to buy another Porsche right now, and had my pick, I am not sure what I would choose, but it would probably be a 993 or 996...but then again, I am in love with the 1973 Carrera RS...that ducktail is just something else!!!

Of course, people will ***** at me, and some will agree...I am just the first to post going against everyone.

Cheers,
Paul

Hmm, I agree, I think the last "true" 911 is a 993 is just a little too much bull...

I mean how much of a "real" mustang is the new mustang for example? (I know it's off but...) The "evolution" was necessary, and couldn't be done without... The 993 is much more of a looker, but the flares are aerodynamically horrible! Besides, I didn't like the 996 either, it might not be as "hardcore", but not many of the newer cars are... With the exception of the last gen RX-7 bi turbo! WOW that's a CAR I'd love to own/drive... OK, back to the Porsches...

The boxter, well, base I don't know about that, but have you driven a boxter S? Those are awesome, and I'm sorry but in my opinion superior to a 911 OVERALL, not to offend anybody, but it's a two seater, and hey, mid engine, as challanging a rear engine might be, and rewarding, let's face it, a mid engine is still the ultimate set-up, and a flat six makes it even better! Wait for the 986 turbos, and S2s, much like the 944 line went through, the "base" and the "S" were just the beginning.

Just to ease your hearts, the 996 is to get more power, possibly loose some weight, and get some more power, with a treatment on the (unloved, even by me, but it grows on you) headlights.

Well, these were my opinions, and ofcourse this is a higly subjective topic, so don't take offense.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

It seems like everyone here is in agreement, pretty much (and we're all also waiting for some sensitive soul with a 996 to take offense).

If you had to win a race, you'd choose the 2001 Turbo. If you want to turn the eyes of everyone on the street, you opt for a Carrera RS or some later form of non-aerodynamic but compelling turbo-style wide bodywork.

If you want the wind in your hair, you don't care what anyone is thinking. You just enjoy it.

It used to be that you could have the best of both worlds with Porsche -- a 993 turbo looked great, and was the fastest thing on the block. Now form and function sit a little less easily together, but the car continues to improve, technologically, even as it loses its edge, cosmetically.

Of course, that 980 might bring it all back together, albeit at a price few can afford.

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html

It's funny, I have owned a bunch of 911's and when I look at the newer cars, they look too soft. The car became more of a grand touring car, with all of the amenities of a Mercedes or other luxury car. I have not had the pleasure of driving the 996, but I hate the sound. We should come out with a sound kit that gives the watercooled cars the sound we have grown to know and love from our aircooled cars. I would, however, think that the 996 is easier to have a conversation in at higher speeds.

The shape of the newer car is slippery, aiding in higher speeds and less wind noise, but the brutish form of the earlier turbos just gives the impression of punching through the air with force.

The BoxsterS is a very nice car to drive and I am sure to live with, but I think I'll keep my 911's. There is a mystique about the aircooled cars that will never be matched. The newer cars, whether it's the 996 or Boxster are too civilized and refined for my taste.

I think all of the replies so far indicate that we are purist snobs, which I am good with, but the progress and evolution of the 911 moves on. No doubt they are well built, well running cars, but just not our cup of tea.

I would bet anything you won't get a reply from a 996 owner. They could care less about anything Porsche except owning one. They wouldn't know Pelican Parts from Chicken Parts.

Someone once said that if you could make a physical representation of a young man's libido, it would look like a 1959 Corvette. Several folks ahve commented to me about my car "now there's a man's car." I apologize for these politically incorrect references to men, but my point is that the 911, even as opposed to the 993, has a great deal of character. Many curves and lines and swells and it's all set up with perfgormance in mind. They now know what car shapes do best in the wind tunnels. As a result, today's cars look like spearheads. The 911 is no longer the superior car in wind tunnel tests. But it will probably always be a superior car in the eyeball tests. Like the Deuce Coupe. And the '59 Vette.

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'83 SC

I'm not saying the new 911's aren't nice cars but are they real sports cars now or high powered sports sedans? Like a BMW.

Is it just me, or was it hard for ANY manufacturer to design a bad-looking car during the mid-to-late '60s? 911's (up to '73), '63-'67 Vette's,(espically the roadsters) '67-'69 Camaros, '67-'70 Mustangs (espically the fastbacks), nearly any Ferrari,...that stying period just seemed to produce so may cars that just looked RIGHT-they looked like machinery with a purpose-"they looked fast even sitting still". It's getting harder to get excited about newer cars, from a styling standpoint-hell, it's becoming difficult telling them apart sometimes. Porsche did a great job with the Boxster, making it look quite a bit smaller than it actually is, like a SPORTS car-something with just enough size to contain the mechanicals and two people (and maybe a bag or two). Still, the 993 calls to me in ways a 996 never will-the 993 is car I'd want to own, to hand wash in my driveway just so I can admire it's curves, while the 996 is more of a vehicle I'd drop off at the detailer's so I wouldn't have to be bothered with it-(more time to work on the 912 project that way). Just MHO, folks-comments are welcome.

What's all this bunk about aerodynamics? What possible difference could that make? THE most coveted exotic car of all time is also the most un-aerodynamic, but still manages tripple legal speeds - the Lambo Countach. Should all cars look like eggs? Come on Posche give me flairs, tails, scoops, and a raspy exhaust! And for God's sake do something about those butt ugly headlights.

Back when I was working on F-4's (a fighter aircraft) the joke was that it had the glide path of a rock... but if you put enough power (thrust) behind it anything can fly.
aero-dy-what?? I love the 930 look with the flares, wings, big tires etc. I am not partial to the slant/ flat nose because the trademark lights are gone.

The last 911 for me is the 993 widebody (still has the lights...kinda)just a tad out of reach right now.

s

I think its great that they saved the money on the 996 front end by copying the Boxster's! That way they will have enough cash to build the Cayenne and not just throw money away on racing!!

JUST KIDDING.

Just think though that in 20 years we will be driving our 996's and gripping about the new 911 Porsche just came out with. If I could afford a new 996 now I would buy it and appreciate it like my current 911. There are exhaust systems out there that are supposed to sound close to the 993 system on the 996 (Ruf or Gemballa I believe). The cars we drive now were probably a status symbol when they were initially sold as well. Probably not quite as much as now but it still would have happened.

JMHO

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'76 911S

'80 924 M471

How great would this design look with simple, round headlights?

Whoops. A picture so nice, I posted it twice.

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 07-13-2000).]