'84 Targa died while driving?!?

[slodave]

Hi,

Took my car out to go to an appointment. Car had been sitting for about 2 hours, so it was not overheating. Stopped at a stop sign, went form 1st to 2nd and as I was accelerating, the car lost power (not electrical). I pulled over to the side of the road and tried to get it started. The car would turn over and over (storng, no battery issue), but would not fire. The DME relay was replaced a couple of years ago, but I do not have a spare with me (doh). I am going to clean up some of the ground points that I can easily get to, I am not near my jack, nor do I have a way of getting the car up in the air at the moment. Any thoughts as to what I can do? After about 5 mins at the side of the road, the car fired up again and I was able to get it to work. I do have an old Clifford alarm that still works, but maybe it is atarting to fail. I am also going to stop by a parts store on the way home and pick up an assortment of fuses and replace them all. I think that almost all the fuses in the car are 22 years old...

Dave

Dave

[slodave]

Being without the right tools sucks. I was not able to get the DME relay out while at work. I did clean(fine sandpaper) three fuse ends on the left rear side in the engine compartment and I cleaned up the four brown ground wires that attach to the engine intake mani near the heater blower. I was not able to get to any ground straps that were underneath the car.



I found this being used for the fuel pump(number six from the left). It has a 15 on it, so I assume it is a 15 amp. It also says 32v. I have been searching, but cannot seem to find a good list of what amperage each fuse should be. I am 99% sure all the fuses are correct, except for the the glass fuse.


I don't have the owners manual anymore, so looking in there won't help. Even though the DME relay is fairly new, should I pull it and look at the solder joints?

The car ran without problem for the rest of the day.

Thanks!

Dave

[cantdrv55]

Replace the DME relay. If that doesn't fix it, you now have a spare. You will need it someday.

Your car is exhibiting the same symptoms mine did. I dicked around and dicked around and it turned out to be the damn DME relay. Wasted a few hours but learned a good lesson.

[450knotOffice]

Dave,

I've got the manual (and mine's an '84 also)(also, fwiw, I think it's your DME relay too)

From the front of the car to the back (# 1 to # 21):


25
5
5
5
8
8
8
8
5
5
16
25
25
16
8
25
16
5
25
25
25

And, for your info,
Fuses in the Engine Compartment:

Rear Window Defogger, etc 25
Heater Fan 25
Relay for heater fan 5

[Hugh R]

For what its worth, my 84 Targa just quit one day and would crank, but not start. It turned out to be an internally shorted fuel injector. It took TRE two days to fiqure it out. Costs me lots. Apparently a short completely screws the signal to the DME.

[slodave]

I just yanked my DME realy and am about to pull it apart. I do not have a spare at the moment, but will get one tomorrow anyway. It seems from Scott's list, that the fuel fuse should be 25 amps(a blue fuse) and the glass one in its place seems to be 15 amps. I can believe it is the relay, but the first one lasted 20 years. I thought I should at least get 5 out of the new one

Thanks for the info Scott, Hugh and cantdrv55!

Hugh, I hope it is not a fuel injector.

Dave

[slodave]

Ok, The DME relay looks brand new inside. No cracks in the solder joints and the PCB board shows no burn marks. The relay was made 9/26/04, so maybe that is about the time I replaced it and it was made in Hungary. I am heating up my soldering iron and will touch up the joints "while-I'm-in-there"....

Hugh, I really hope it is not a bad injector, but at the same time, today was the first time it quit on me and after about ten minutes at the side of the road, it started right back up and the problem never came back.

Dave

[slodave]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice

And, for your info,
Fuses in the Engine Compartment:

Rear Window Defogger, etc 25
Heater Fan 25
Relay for heater fan 5

Looks like I have a spare 25 amp fuse and a 5 amp. I removed the heater stuff since it was non functioning

Dave

[450knotOffice]

Dave, my old DME relay started acting up on me a while back. The car would usually start and run, but every once in a while it was a no start situation. I pulled the relay and found that I had a solder join that had disintigrated (it was really hard to see, btw) and it would occasionally not allow a start. I replaced it and the car runs perfectly - actually better and smoother than before.

[slodave]

From the numbers that Scott has posted, I have found that four of my fuses are incorrect, one being the glass fuse (fuel pump). Unless someone says otherwise, I will replace the four wrong fuses in the morning before I go to work. I will be getting a replacement DME relay ASAP.

Thanks!

Dave

[slodave]

Forgot the pic:

[RickM]

For reference:

5 Amp = Yellow
8 Amp = White
16 Amp = Red
25 Amp = Blue

[JTL]

Did you check the flywheel sensors??

jt
-84 targa

[DonMo]

speed sensor got me, flywheel needs to move to get fuel.

[slodave]

Originally posted by JTL
Did you check the flywheel sensors??

jt
-84 targa

I have not been able to get underneath the car yet. I did drive the car Friday and no problems at all.

I did remove the two bolts circled while the engine was out in order to clean the sensors up a bit, but that was it. I did not think that these bolts would affect the distance to the flywheel.


For now, a new DME replacement is on order and I think I will clean up the tranny to chassis ground strap, maybe even get a new one. It is 22 years old.


Dave

[JTL]

Try measuring the resistance of the sensors to see if they check out. If one is bad there will be no spark and thus no start. Don't just throw parts at it when you don't know what the problem is. Maybe the the dme is bad but I would recommend checking everything else first.

jt

[slodave]

Ok, tested the resistance of both sensors and they both read 1k ohms.

Not really trying to throw money at the car, but it seems that most like the idea of carrying a spare.

Dave

[JTL]

According the Bentley both sensors should measure as follows between the plug terminals:

Terminals
1-2 960 Ohms +-96 Ohms
1-3 >100 KOhms
2-3 >100 KOhms

Top plug terminal = #3
Middle = #2
Bottom = #1

DG=speed sensor
BG=reference sensor

Hope this helps...

jt

[slodave]

Ok, I only tested terminals 1 and 2. And the are within the +-96 Ohms range. I'll go back in a bit and measure the other terminals.

Thanks JT!

Dave

[Jim2]

Dave, the glass fuse jambed in there is suspect in my eyes. I guess it worked OK since it was in there a long time and never acted up, but any momentary lack of contact could have interupted the power to the fuel pump which would have resulted in your symptoms.

My friends 86 developed a similar "die and no restart" symptom. The wires to the crank position sender deteriorated at the connection plug above cyl number 3. It occured on the part of the plug attached to the wire harness coming from the chassis. It took a wile to find due to being intermittent, but showed up when we started wiggling wires while the engine was running.

If your car ever does this again, sniff the tail pipe after cranking to restart the engine. If you smell raw fuel from the tail pipe this will aid in diagnosing the problem, pointing you to ignition components since the computer will be injecting fuel as normal. I'm no expert, and have limited exposure to Carerras.

Hope you find the problem soon.

Jim