Elephants foot

My '71T runs great, doesn't smoke, has good compression, but makes a ticking sound that's driving me crazy. I've adjusted the valves twice, the second time with a dial indicator, and I'm confident they are at .1mm, but still the engine ticks. I can't isolate it to a single valve with a stethoscope, it seems to be coming from all the valves. It's seems really loud to me, especially when I drive along a high curb or next to parked cars which echo the sound back.
Stormcrow, are you out there? You mentioned in a previous post that you replaced the 'elephants foot' which contacts the valve stem. My question is, did that fix your ticking? Did you replace them all? I looked very carefully at mine yesterday and found that if I rock a rocker arm at TDC, the .1mm of movement is entirely between the ball and socket of the elephants foot. In other words, the foot part remains stuck to the valve stem and the ball is moving in and out of it's socket, with a little oil squishing out each time. This seems to be the case in most of my valves, although some are pretty hard to see. I'm trying to decide if it's worth the time and expense to replace them all. I would do it if I was confident my ticking would end.
One more question, how do you replace the elephants foot/adjusting screw assembly? Is there an easier way than removing the rocker arm?
Thanks, Brad

**Just wanted to put this topic back on top...

I have almost the same problem with a 79SC.

Can someone supply some info ...

I want to see some input here too, as I have made similar observations. Anyone replaced these elephant foot things, AKA swivel feet?

My car ticks a little too and I've heard that worn swivel feet can cause this. How do you identify a worn one?

On the other hand, the .1mm gap should close to about nothing at operating tempoeratures. This would preclude ticking.

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'83 SC

a drawback to not having a hydraulic valve lash adjusting system is the valves will tick alittle. the advantage is a gain in performance because of exact tolerences. you are better to have the valves alittle loose than to adjust them to tight as they will leak and burn. if ticking is all you hear don,t worry about it. these engines are about bullet proof, once i figured out that most the problems were in my head i started to enjoy my car alot more. go for a ride.

Well, I'm not ruling out the possibility that I've just got an obsessive-compulsive thing going here. It's hard to ignore a sound once your ears get really tuned in. Having said that, though, I swear it's getting louder. I find myself turning down the radio suddenly to listen to it...tick..tick..tick....like the Poe story, it's 'the tell-tale tick'. It really sounds too loud to be normal...

How many miles on your engine? How long have you had the car and worked on the engine? Have you listened to another 911 (an older one, preferrably) that has been recently tuned up and is running in a satisfactory manner, in it's owner's opinion?

You say you can't isolate 'the tick' to a particular area ... with a stethoscope. I would suggest taking to an isolated area in the country side, such as a roadside stop, or park where there aren't any curbs, buildings or objects that could reflect sound, kind of an anechoic chamber, of sorts ... and try going over the valve covers again with a stethoscope, until you find SOME area that is more troublesome than others, with respect to 'the tick' from Poe!!!

Have you discussed this noise with a mechanic, friend, or other 911 owner/mechanic?

I am not saying you are imagining things, or obsessive/compulsive, etc., but it might be helpful to have another set of ears to isolate the 'problem' ... if indeed it is a problem, rather than just a general condition, after years of wear on the valvetrain.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Thanks for the reply Warren,
The car has about 130K miles. The odometer has stopped, but judging from the previous owners' records, I don't think it has much more than that. I definitely don't have a trained ear for this engine as I've only had the car (my 1st Porsche) for 8 months. I had a Porsche mechanic listen to it last week and he didn't think it was a problem, but his shop was in a noisy area, and you really hear it more when you drive the car. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone else with an early 911.
I keep thinking maybe what I'm hearing is not valves at all, but an exhaust leak. Would a leak between the pipes and the engine make a ticking noise? I can't get my hand up there to try to feel for a leak, but I thought I would make sure none of the heat exchanger bolts are loose this weekend.
I don't think the car made the noise when I bought it, and it seems to be getting progressively louder. Then again, maybe I'm just focused on it now. I'll try your idea of getting away from noise and reflective surfaces and listen some more.
Thanks, Brad

Hello:

In my case - 79SC 107K miles

I have isolated it to intake valve #3.
I have adjusted this valve many times
and it is always a bit noisy. I may try
to just replace the rocker/shaft/adjust foot
on #3 intake to see if it helps, [not to
expensive].

Also, am I correct in that the 0.1 valve
clearance grows larger as the engine warms
up, so that when you adjust cold engine
valves, that will be the smallest clearance
and the valves do not get tighter as the engine warms up . I have seen the opposite of this stated on this list and want to
clear up this fact...

Thanks again for any help...


[This message has been edited by bill mateer (edited 08-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by bill mateer (edited 08-09-2000).]

Bill,

I don't think there is ANY need to think about replacing the shaft or rocker on the 'pesky' #3 intake ... just the swivel-foot should do it, and dont throw away that old swivel-foot. You may be able to crimp it around the threaded shaft, and it would always be handy to have around as a spare! They are generaly in the $7-$9 range for a replacement part, but you will need a 1/4" drive torque wrench of the 'deflection-pointer' type ... to replace the rocker shaft and torque to the proper spec.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Bill, the clearance (gap, lash, whatever you want to call it) of 0.1mm decreases as the parts heat up and expand. At operating temperatures this distance should close to almost nothing. there will still be a small amount of gap, but it will be nearly nothing.

Warren, I have a tiny 1/4" drive 'clicker' torque wrench. Measures inch-pounds. Are you sure this would not work?

Also, does the rocker arm need to come out in order to replace the swivel-foot?

Brad, you and I should both quit worrying about a little valve lash ticking, other than maintaining the proper valve lash (0.1mm). If that's what it is. You may be right about the exhaust leak think. Yes, they sound VERY much like a mechanical ticking noise. One clue for you is that they tend to be loudest when the engine is cold. As it warms up, the parts expand and exhaust leaks get a little quieter. Further, they slowly increase over time.



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'83 SC

And what if they get louder as the engine warms up, ie, from silence to tapping after 15 mins running?
Brad's original posting could have come from my own hand. I am having a lot of difficulty isolating the exact origin, and my ear has become so tuned to this tapping I'm starting to hear it in other peoples cars.......

I can't isolate it with the stethoscope either. Let me know if the elephant's foot replacement works.
Maybe this is just a common noise that they do? I hope so.



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'72 911 TE

Hi Brad,

Just got off vacation so I have some catching up to do. You should feel the play in the elephants foot by taking the load off it and adjusting it to your specs. Remove the feeler gauge. After you do that, press the end of the rocker arm so it makes contact with the valve stem. Grab the end of the adjusting screw and pull on it. If the swivel on the end of the valve adjusting stem is worn, you should be able to feel the slack before the foot it comes off the valve stem.

I purchased new ones and havn't replaced them as of yet. The car still runs great but the noise is very annoying sometimes embarrasing.

Anyway, this fall I will probably do a replacement on them. Hope this info helps.

Steve