DIY (self taught) paintless dent removal

[Zeke]

I thought I'd better at least try this. I'll explain the wire before the 2nd pic. Look at the end of the point to see the object of my attention. You can't see it too well, but it was about 3/8ths of an inch big and reasonably deep. Something sharp fell on the car.



I couldn't quite figure out where the ball of the hammer was. So I made a pointer corresponding to the location of the ball pein behind the fender. It was attached on the butt of the hammer handle. I'm sure the pros don't do this, but I needed a guide at first.



I figured out the technique about half way into this. I knew you needed a polished ball, so I choose my smallest hammer. Later, I made a couple more tools that had a smaller ball. The secret seems to be to be able to work the ball back and forth behind the dent. Kind of like metal planishing when beating metal parts. No direct pushing out of the metal. You need to remove the undercoating and I think it might be a good idea to apply some bee's wax on the ball. A cross handle at the end makes this pretty simple, if you have a LOT of patience. I worked on this for 4 hours! Looks good for my second go round. (I won't show you my first )

The dent was in the middle there in the lighted area where the two paralles lines go across the surface.

[MattAlpha]

Milt,
You continue to amaze me. Thank you for the advice and explaination of your new technique.
-Matt

[Jeff Alton]

Nice work Milt, you have too much time on your hands!! If I lived near you I would bring my Pathfinder (which people seem to like tuning on in parking lots) by and a case of beer for some lessons.

Looks good

[hatpix]

Some pendejo kicked the rear DS fender on my Z3 a few months ago and I looked online for somebody to remove the dent for me. The dent was pretty big and went across a plane and a curve, so it wasn't a simple matter. Anyway, this guy David comes over with a truck full of tools, we agree on a fee of $250 and he gets to work. Here's the process as I remember it:

BEFORE





First he sticks a suction-cup to the car, which has a flexible arm attached to it, and at the end of that, a white 8x10 plastic card which has parallel black stripes painted on it. What he does is positions the card in such a way that when he looks at its reflection in the paint, he can tell which way the dent goes.

Next he took a small hammer and what looked like a nylon dowel about 6" long and started knocking out the High spots. He did this for about half an hour, then reached under the fender and popped it out with his hand! He explained that if you don't release the energy trapped in the fender first, it will be fighting you as you try to push it out.

He spend the following hour and a half fine-tuning the work both from the fron with the dowel and from underneath with a special tool shape like an "L" with two 45º bends in it.

After that he color sanded the area with an orbital polisher. The job was really amazing. Even I couldn't tell where the dent was.

AFTER

[village idiot]

wow, that's some nice work from both parties

[WPOZZZ]

Originally posted by village idiot
wow, that's some nice work from both parties

Saw your SC parked by Aku Bone today.

[village idiot]

Originally posted by WPOZZZ
Saw your SC parked by Aku Bone today.

You sure it was mine? It hasn't left my shop in a few months. The plates are in storage right now and I'm starting in on the body work shortly after I finish doing Andy's Pontiac wagon.

[WPOZZZ]

Wasn't that your SC Targa parked on Piikoi? It sure looked like it.

[village idiot]

Nope, I haven't driven it any further than around the Hobby shop building lately. Right now it's taking residence in the welding shed until I get the Pontiac done.

[village idiot]

You saw a Targa? It might've been my old car. I sold it when I came across this 78 Coupe.

[WPOZZZ]

Yup, a Targa on Piikoi.

Back on topic. I used to watch this guy do dent removal locally and he had an assortment of hooks and pry bars along with nylon mallets.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by hatpix
Some pendejo kicked the rear DS fender on my Z3 a few months ago and I looked online for somebody to remove the dent for me. The dent was pretty big and went across a plane and a curve, so it wasn't a simple matter. Anyway, this guy David comes over with a truck full of tools, we agree on a fee of $250 and he gets to work. Here's the process as I remember it:

BEFORE





First he sticks a suction-cup to the car, which has a flexible arm attached to it, and at the end of that, a white 8x10 plastic card which has parallel black stripes painted on it. What he does is positions the card in such a way that when he looks at its reflection in the paint, he can tell which way the dent goes.

Next he took a small hammer and what looked like a nylon dowel about 6" long and started knocking out the High spots. He did this for about half an hour, then reached under the fender and popped it out with his hand! He explained that if you don't release the energy trapped in the fender first, it will be fighting you as you try to push it out.

He spend the following hour and a half fine-tuning the work both from the fron with the dowel and from underneath with a special tool shape like an "L" with two 45º bends in it.

After that he color sanded the area with an orbital polisher. The job was really amazing. Even I couldn't tell where the dent was.

AFTER

That's way beyond what I would attempt. I would have already bought the paint!

Thanks much for the rundown. It isn't often these guys will let you watch. I watched a guy from behind a window once, but I couldn't really see what was going on except for the light and the patterns. I had plenty of reflected patterns to use. I undersand "pressure" from general metal work. Still, this is a real art and I thought knowing a bit about how it is accomplished would only make me a better meatal worker.

BTW, the color sanding really hepls with the last 10%.

Anyone else?

[the]

Good job Milt! I've tried it before, using the method kinda like you did, but was a dismal failure.

In the old days (10-15 years ago) paintless dent guys wouldn't let you watch. But these days, most don't have a problem with it.

[Tim Hancock]

I rubbed a couple small dents out of my Audi door when I had it tore apart to replace the dreaded plastic guide clips. I tig welded a 3/8 dia ball bearing to the end of a steel rod and rubbed and pushed it against the back side of the dent while watching at an angle from the outside. It worked on two of the dents perfectly, but one of them still shows up a little.

I myself tried to investigate how the pros do it, but was only able to find a few long range pics of some of the tools they use. Someday someone is going to expose the workings of this black art to the masses on the internet, then all of us DIY guys will quit having to guess so much.

Most of the tools I got a glimpse of, could best be described as blunt nose picks that are inserted behind the damage and then levered carefully against the back side to "work" the dent out.

[masraum]

Wow, M/Z, great work. Some of you fellas on this board make me feel like a DIY retard with the work and results that you manage.

[hatpix]

David paid two different guys $4000 each to train him, each in his own style. The he spent a few months at the junk yards taking dents and dings out of doors and fenders there, just for practice.

I built up a bit of rapport with him, letting him work for half an hour, then coming back to chat for a bit. He's been doing it for a few years now, says he can take dents out of aluminum and composite body panells as well. I was impressed, almost asked if I could apprentice for him.

[the]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock


I myself tried to investigate how the pros do it, but was only able to find a few long range pics of some of the tools they use. Someday someone is going to expose the workings of this black art to the masses on the internet, then all of us DIY guys will quit having to guess so much.

Most of the tools I got a glimpse of, could best be described as blunt nose picks that are inserted behind the damage and then levered carefully against the back side to "work" the dent out.

If anyone can learn, you can!

I think you can find all sorts of pictures of the tools on the internet. Lots of places sell them, for instance.

I've seen it done many, many times.

Basically, the tool they use to work the backside of the dent is shaped kind of like a tiny spoon. They work the back of the dent with the backside of the spoon. Exactly what they are doing, I don't know, because you can't see. They do it by feel. Interestingly, they apparently don't need a huge amount of force, because many of these tools are very long and thin, and a bit flexy.

When they push from the back, they cause some high spots. Kinda like little pimples. They hit those down from the front with a punch like instrument. The better guys seem to get less of those. But basically they work the dent from the front and back like that until it is good.

[john70t]

I heard the trick was to put 2 florescent lights so that the reflections are on either side of the dent . When pushed in the center of the dent, the lines will eventuall become parrallel-on flat panels. One light would probably work too.

I tried a basic/practice job on a friends bashed-in quarter panel and got it closer, but the seam began to tear. The rubbing action seemed to be safer and more effective. I used the curve of a crow bar and set the edge against a wood block.
Defintely go slow and warm up the metal to minimize paint cracking.

[Zeke]

the, you would be surprised at the small amount of effort it takes to smooth metal when hammer forming of doing conventional bodywork. Which is my hobby, I guess, since I've been beating metal for 30 years, but am a woodbutcher by trade. The final finishing is done often times with a slapper because it covers more surface and even things out. This is called planishing. But, an English wheel makes short work of that. Somewhere between the two lies the art of paintless dent work. You simply hve to take the paint into account. So, you have the backside to massage in order to accomplish the task.

As in my day job, I know how to face many differnet situations and make corrections as needed, say like in installin moldings. There's a hundred tricks to that beyond cutting and nailing. The difference between me, or any other that can get the tools, in the paintless dent work is the hundred tricks.

Still, I saved myself a couple hundred bucks. I have a couple of dents I'm not going to even think about trying. I'm stoping by the paintless place tomorrow after the Porsche North America Racing open house.

[Zeke]

the, you would be surprised at the small amount of effort it takes to smooth metal when hammer forming or doing conventional bodywork. Which is my hobby, I guess, since I've been beating metal for 30 years, but am a woodbutcher by trade. The final finishing is done often times with a slapper because it covers more surface and even things out. This is called planishing. But, an English wheel makes short work of that. Somewhere between the two lies the art of paintless dent work. You simply hve to take the paint into account. So, you have the backside to massage in order to accomplish the task.

As in my day job, I know how to face many differnet situations and make corrections as needed, say like in installing moldings. There's a hundred tricks to that beyond cutting and nailing. The difference between me, or any other that can get the tools, in the paintless dent work, is the hundred tricks.

Still, I saved myself a couple hundred bucks. I have a couple of dents I'm not going to even think about trying. I'm stoping by the paintless place tomorrow after the Porsche North America Racing open house.