valves

My recently purchased 88 carrera has service records that indicate full service at 28,000 miles from Andial.I've just changed the oel at 37,000 it has of course been changed every three thousand. When should the next service be appropriate and what would that entail. My manual suggests many things but not valves, that of course is a major concern. I also don't see a record of bleeding the brakes or trans fluid having been changed. Thanks for your help.
Michael

Michael, The valves should have been adjusted with each oil change, and every oil change! Every 3000 miles is probably not needed with today's oils, I prefer to make semi-annual servicing a job in the spring and fall, but annually is OK if mileage accumulation is low. If you can 'hear' the valves 'ticking' a bit, they can be adjusted between oil changes, but you have to drain the sump (but NOT the tank) to keep from getting a bath when you remove the exhaust valve covers. There should not be nore than a gallon of oil in the sump! Valves are to be adjusted when the engine is cold, ONLY, never when hot! There is a Pelican how-to article on the valve adjustment job. A 'complete' service includes air and fuel filters, in addition to the usual oil filter, and at least pulling and inspecting the sparkplugs, and replacement if showing problems. Transaxle gear oil change is also done at the same interval as major service, at least annually! SWEPCO 201 is the gear oil of choice, if you are interested in long, trouble-free service from your transaxle. Your CV-joints are now at the normal, recommended interval (30-40K miles) to be cleaded and repacked with a high-quality Moly grease like SWEPCO! In addition to two tubes of grease, you will need four CV-joint gaskets.

Since you have no record of brake fluid work, I have to assume the worst, that there has been no attention at all to the fluid. I strongly suggest a rebuild of all four calipers and the master cylinder, blowing out the brake lines with compressed air, and refill with silicone brake fluid, though you may want to stay with Glycol-based fluid. If you don't wish to do the whole system service now, I would recommend, at the least, removal of all four calipers from the suspension and draining thoroughly, blowing out the lines, and calipers with compressed air, and refilling and bleeding. Brake fluid of the (regular) Glycol variety needs to be changed using the procedure I just mentioned, every TWO years!!! At the mileage you cite, the rear pads are probably getting close to needing replacement, or at least choosing which pads to buy.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Warren, I wholeheartedly agree about the brake and tranny fluid advice and so forth. But, I thought it was 'normal' factory procedure (at least for early cars) to do the valve adjustment every 6000 miles -- i.e. every other oil change. I have always done a full service with oil plus all filters, tranny fluid, plugs, points, valves and brake/wheel bearing inspection at 6K with an oil change at 3K. Should the 69-73 911 really need valve adjustments at 3K? And even more surprising the later 3.2s?

Actually, I don't think the oil needs to be changed at 3000 miles, unless you are talking about VW Beetles. Six months or 6000 miles seems OK for any 911, early or '89! With valves, the number of heat/cool cycles probably has more to do with them loosening up, than the number of miles driven! So, six months of use that only amounts to 2000 miles still needs an oil change and valves adjusted, in my opinion. Of course, we are speaking here about 'conventional' petroleum oils, not synthetics! I like to check/adjust the valves at every oil change, simply to keep a close check on the health of the engine, if none are found needing adjustment, I still don't feel I have 'wasted' my time! But if one or two neeeded adjusting, then I caught it at just the right time, because I can usually hear one 'ticking' valve, and I hate to drive a car knowing the valves need adjusting!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Hey Warren,
I´ve did a top end job in my 2.7L about 7 mths ago 4k miles (changed valves, guides and seals)....and my valves always tickle. The mecanic adjusted the valves two times and dont stop tickling. He says that the arm that hits the valve to open and close is worn (loose), and that´s what´s making the tickling and I don´t need to worry.
What do u think?

Adjust your valves on an '88 at each oil change?!? Rebuild your entire braking system on an '88 even though it is working fine, simply because you don't have past service records?!? Your mechanic is gonna love 'ya!

DOT 5 brake fluid?!? Porsche specifically says "no" to that, check your owners manual!

Eddie

Street 911s up to 964s need the valves adjusted every 15K. After three adjustments (45K) the valve adjustment changes very little and 20K is acceptable. Oil changes should occur stricktly according to driving habbits and type of oil used. Synthetics can be changed anually only if you usually drive far enough to drive off all moisture with engine heat. If you normally take short trips you should check and change your oil frequently (making the use of synthetics a waste of money). This information comes not only from my own experience but three Porsche mechanics that I periodically use.

Marcello,

There is no 'arm' contacting the valves to open them ... that is handled by the swivel foot, which could be worn and ticking, as could the rocker arm bushings. Both SHOULD have been examined when the top-end job was done ... you may want to ask whoever did the rebuild about wear on those items, and if they were checked.

Eddie, You must be of the 'school' that thinks no maintenance, just repairs are required on vehicles! And, YES, the valves are to be adjusted at every oil change ... funny, you seem inclined to believe the owner's manual when it comes to brake fluid selection, but not major maintenance schedules! I have used silicone brake fluid since 1976, in many vehicles, including other peoples' ... no complaints, breakdowns, or other problems: Chrysler, Datsun, BMW, Mercedes, VW, and Porsche! And, in more than 22 years of owning my '73 911S Targa, only two repairs were done by anyone other than myself: chipped windshield replacement in 1978, and a broken window regulator replacement at a dealer while on vacation in 1979. All maintenance has been done by me, a claim I doubt you can make!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

I don't think you know much about the later cars. If you are adjusting the valves at every oil change on a late 80's Carrera, you are NOT following the owner's manual (yes, I am more likely to follow the owner's manual than some dude on the internet). Have you ever read the owner's manual for an '88? Obviously not. You are either changing the oil too little, or adjusting the valves too much if, on an '88, you are adjusting the valves at every oil change. And adjusting them every 2000 miles or once per year (if you only drive the car 2000 per year)?
[This message has been edited by Eddie Willers (edited 03-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Eddie Willers (edited 03-09-2000).]

Oh, come on kids, we're all adults here and can probably make intelligent decisions about what we want to do with our cars. We don't need to descend into petty insults.

Warren *is* some dude on the Internet. Um, how does that change the fact that he's been working on these cars for years longer than I have, and knows scads more than I do? I'm waiting for him to write a book. That doesn't change the fact that I don't always follow his advice to the letter. I'm inclined to agree that since I don't have much experience with my braking system, and there's nothing wrong with it, I'll probably let it go until I have a problem.

In the meantime Ed it's fine to disagree, but when ya do, you might want to be a little less agressive about it. Got an opinion? Air it, but don't try to make other far more established posters look bad - it only reflects badly on you.


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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

Thanks, Dad. LOL.

I just pointed out some bad information. Warren started the personal attack. I just finished it.

I do like your logic, though. Just because someone has "scads" more experience than YOU, they must be an expert. I'm sure y'all can see the problem with that logic. A kid who can only count to 10 thinks that the kid who can count to 20 is an absolute genius.

Y'all have fun!

Hey Eddie, you wouldn’t want to be the smart-ass kid who assumes that those who can count to twenty don’t also know how to calculate a modified internal rate of return. You might want to research some of the past posts to see the depth of knowledge Warren has on these cars before getting nasty.

Liked your analogy though.

Regards,

[This message has been edited by stormcrow (edited 03-08-2000).]

I agree with Mark, its the way you say it that makes the difference.
And I think that if you would like to have your car running good for more than 300k miles, like, I think Bruce Anderson said he´d seen, you certainly must do a more carefull servicing than the owners manual. That realy makes the difference.
Not offending any one involved, just my opinion.

<----- Ed's Daddy

He'd be scared *****less if he saw a picture of me.

Ed...again...don't slag people on the board, just offer an opinion.


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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

As I am sure everyone knows every 15k is the interval for valve adj and 15k for oil changes so Warren is correct on oil/valve adj
recommendations
One tip that another member mentioned to me is you can jack up your car and adj that side of your valves and not have to drain your oil I've done it several times and it works great

Y'all people are too much!

Let's jsut all have fun here!

[This message has been edited by Eddie Willers (edited 03-09-2000).]

SOOO...How often do I adjust my valves? I figure the 88 Carrera will get 5000 mi per year, half around town. One oel change every six months if nothing else needs service and an oel change if anything else needs service, within reason of course.That puts a valve adj at two or three year increments, 10 or 15,000 increments.

Next topic.. More provocative than valves. Tune in.

You've answered your own question. As I stated above, valves on pre-964 911s should be adjusted every 15k miles. If Warren wants to adjust his valves every day he can, but that is not good advice for the typical street driven 911. Generally it doesn't hurt to over maintain your pride and joy, within reason.

Actually, one oil change a year is probably adequate, and I doubt if adjusting the valves at that time would be considered over-maintaining by Bruce Anderson, since he has clearly stated on many ocassions that he is not entirely comfortable with the factory recommended 15K interval. A question, Michael: have you owned your car long enough to 'hear' one or two of the valves loosen up and start 'tapping'?

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa