Buying first 911

I have been researching buying my first Porsche 911 and have been looking at a post '80 911 SC.

However, everyone talks about upgrading their 911 almost straight after buying it, which has made me think about buying an already modified 911 - for example I have seen in a 1978 911 RUF for sale. The 911 will be my second car and I do plan on using it for the odd track day.

Does anyone have a view on whether or not this is a good idea? Am I likely to bite off more than I can chew if I get something like a RUF?

Thanks, James

In my opinion, it makes the most economic sense to buy the most restored and (reasonably) upgraded Porsche you can find. I don't know how many guys here would admit to it, but you often invest double or triple the amount in your car that you're finally able to sell it for. There are smart, lucky exceptions to this rule, of course -- but there are also a lot of guys like me.

But no one plans on selling them. So a lot of the restored/modified cars that are up for sale are usually up for sale for a reason -- and it often isn't the one the seller is giving. Old cars, especially performance cars, often reach a point of not really being worth any amount of money -- it will simply cost much more to fix them than they'd ever be worth.

A best-case scenario is to find someone you know, over a long stretch of time, who lovingly upgrades the 911 that he knows he's going to have until the day he dies...

...except his wife announces her plans to divorce him, and his business fails, all in the same week -- and he's suddenly needs to liquidate the car.

Shy of that, try and make friends with a Porsche mechanic who can go over a prospective car inch by inch -- and have him do it before you fall in love with the thing and end up making an emotional (rather than logical) decision. Impulse buying is what keeps those financially-beyond-the-pall cars in circulation.

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe

James,

I guess the question of records and just what 'modifications' did Ruf make, or were they just dealer add-ons, and is it a Turbo? Without full records and history of the car it just becomes another 'mystery' car ... and a bit of a risk!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

When i was looking for a car and had i found one with the modifications and some papers,that could be a smart move but more often the seller will assure you that the car has this that and so on but no papers what so ever which is a big gamble,so i will recomend to take your time and look around good.

Most (if not all) owners of modified cars keep all the reciepts of the modifications done. This is more important to them than maintenance records (normal boring stuff). When you buy a modified car you pay pennies on the dollar for the added goodies - a true bargain. This is the way to go IF you know your way around a modified car and can smell a rat when one is present. A freind of mine just sold a 440HP 930 for $30K that was absolutely mint. He had about $20K in the motor alone. The buyer got the bargain of the century as far as I'm concerned. Do your homework and have fun shoppin!!!

James, do allot of shopping and do not buy the first one you drive (some do). Everyone here is always helpful (and even critical at times) but it will be to your benefit if you listen.

Ask Lee how the would be slant nose almost cost him...

Just take your time and ask allot of Q's

s

This very good advice. One thought that I have is that almost every modification I have done is reversable and I have kept the original part. So if the day comes and I have to sell, (I'm still happily married), I can remove and sell these upgrades. And we all know there is always a market for Porsche Performance Mods. May be a way to get back some, not all, of your money.

I bought a bone stock 83 SC with all papers, in excellent condition and it has worked well for me. Actually there was a lot of luck involved as I did not get an inspection before I bought (big mistake). got away with it as there are apparently no broken head studs. But a car I almost bought (deal fell through and I was pissed) has bee advertised by several sellers in the 10 months since I nearly bought it. It's a '75 and I suspect it has a head stud problem.

I sure wish I had the SSI exhaust though. With the throaty final exhaust this is $1500 or so. Worth it though, I just can't afford it.

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'83 SC

A 78 Ruf 911 isn't really necessary for some track driving. It's just a beefed up SC with an engine enlarged 3.2. You can buy a good stock SC and then put a sports suspension on it. That should be enough for some fun on the track. Unless of course you want to go all the way with big brakes, racing seats, 4 point harness, roll cage, and upgraded engine/gearbox etc.

By the way, I too belong to the group who puts too much money into an older 911. Just had the bodywork restored and resprayed in beautiful arctic silver. But I'm going to keep the car, you know.....

James, whereabouts are you?

Please James, carefully investigate the car that you are interested in, have it checked by an independent mechanic. I just learned from my mechanic that 3 cylinders are loose??!! I don't know what this means, but according to him it means engine overhaul! And that means the end of my saving account. The car looks beautiful and the garage I bought it from (Garage Pfefferle in Switzerland) seemed ok, but in the end the car is not. So pleas let somebody independent (and please don't use friends who claim to have some experience and/or knowledge with cars, a Porsche is different, believe me!) take a look at it.

Best of luck!

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Joris
75 911S
http://members.xoom.com/joogie/Joogie.htm

Here's my free advice (worth every penny):

1) I'm sort of predjudiced against modified cars, particularly heavily modified ones, as often you pour money into them whilst actually making them less valuable... But each to his own.

2) The MOST IMPORTANT thing with any second hand Porsche is a service history. It doesn't matter if this isn't complete years ago - much more importantly it must be complete over a period of five to ten years from today. A well looked after car can be semi-ruined by someone who just neglects it for a couple of years before selling it to you (I speak from experience here). I'd estimate a good 1980 SC will have a file of bills approximately 1/2 thick!

3) Somewhere within 50 miles of your front door will be an independant Porsche specialist - call them and try and arrange an inspection when you've found a car you like. Provided the specialist has been in business a year or two, he is much more likely to find potential and actual problems than you.

4) If you plan to work on the car yourself, give high priority to the state of the bodywork - its very hard for us amateuers to weld and spray panels properly, whereas its perfectly possible for us to do mechanical work to equal or higher standards than a garage.

5) THINK before you buy a Porsche - look at the Pelican site, look at the cost of items such as heat exchangers, distributor parts, even plug connectors - these were not cheap cars when new, and in a sense remain extremely expensive, regardless of the price.

6) Take your time.

7) Get it right, and you will be driving a high performance car with Rolls Royce build quality and reliability superior to almost anything else (for its age) on the road...

Good luck,

- roGER

Joris - sorry to hear about your motor. A "loose" cylinder means that the headbolts for that cylinder have lossened and allowed the barrel to actually move around when the engine was running. This causes scoring of the surfaces and a possible loss of pressure. If you catch it early the surfaces can be polished and the studs tightened, if not then the damage may not be repairable.

Hi James

There are some real pearls of wisdom above, in particular take note of some of Jack’s comments. People usually sell their toys either because they’re broken or due to financial hardship.

I’ve bought several pre ’70 sports cars (including E type Jags and MGAs and Bs) and learnt early on to find cars being sold by true enthusiasts. These are the people more likely to have an “open cheque book” approach to maintenance and be less likely to have flogged their cars. Might also be worth while to get know the local P mechanic, who is likely to know of cars being prepared to be put on the market.

Most importantly BE PATIENT. After deciding the type of car I wanted it took me over a year to find it, the tip coming from the local P mechanic who knew I was in the market. I have bought most of my cars as a product of distressed financial situations of the vendors, which is just as well as some of my service bills have caused me much distress.

Good luck


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Paul
911T'69