No engine cylinder cooling fins on a top end rebuild... serious?

[juicersr]

Just about to close the deal on a 3.0 engine with top-end rebuild with fellow pelican member. Have been going over all the engine details when it came out that he did not (or his brother the mechanic) did not put the cylinder cooling fins on when rebuilding because 'some were missing anyway and the others were rusty'(!) Is this engine headed for a meltdown or cylinder seizing in 100 miles or so? Does the engine have to be taken back down to put the cooling fins around the cylinders? Thanks

[boxermania]

It is my understanding that the "tin" is a major part of the proper cooling of these engines. Not having it in the engine invites problems and based on the re-builders decision I would thread carefully on the quality of the rebuild.

Sorry but 1+1 doesn't add to 3....my .02 cents and my opinion

[Elombard]

I think you can get them in there with the HEs and intake off?

[Gunter]

Woah, that's no good, question the rest of the rebuild.
The air shroud plates are needed!
I would get exact details in writing on what was done re:
What type P/C's are in there? Mahle or KS?
If they are KS (Alusil) they are almost impossible to re-ring.
Who rebuild the heads?
Replaced Headstuds with Steel studs?
How many miles on the engine?
Why was the case not split to do the bottom?
If just new chains were installed on worn bottom chain sprockets, not good! Search for my thread on this.
How much for this "Rebuild"?
I would be very weary about this engine, could be a sloppy rebuild.
A Porsche mechanic would not ommit the air shroud plates!

Erik: It sounds like the HEs and intake are on.

[Plavan]

Walk away..... Please walk away!

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Yeah, leaving those airflow plates out is bad news. Almost as bad as putting them in upside down, which also gets done.

[Zeke]

Well, if it hasn't been run much yet.......

[juicersr]

Yeah, i feel the same way. The pelicanite is a good guy, but i think not too versed in flat-six rebuilding. His brother is a mechanic (not Porsche) who rebuilt the engine at 42,000 miles due to a couple of oil leaks (he bought it for an RSR project). All he did was replace the seals and oil return tubes, replaced all the case studs with steel ones, 'checked' the valve guides and valves, udated with Carrera tensioners. The engine has not been run since rebuild. The fact that this guy left the cooling fins off make me suspect that the rebuild was done in the same manner... without attention to detail. Thanks for confirming what i was feeling guys.

[Joeaksa]

Porsche put them there on the whole range of aircooled engines for a reason and unless something else has been done to cool this area, then its not good.

[T77911S]

my fins were installed on the BOTTOM! they have since been put in their proper place. the car also ran bad, i suspected cam timing. i verified the cams were 15* advanced! (it looked like PO may have read the dial backwords) (instead of 020" of lift, they were set for 080". .1" minus .020=.080. remember, the dial spins CCW so if u read the bold numbers and stop when the dial indicates .020 then it eqauls .080" of lift) that too has been corrected. runs GREAT!!!

[ianc]

You absolutely must have those shroud pieces on there to properly direct the cooling air over the cylinder's cooling fins. If the heads and cam housings are on already, it will not be possible to fit them without bending them all up. This does call into question the quality of the rest of the rebuild.

If the price is right and you don't mind tearing into it yourself to verify things, then go for it, but if you don't have the knowledge\resources to do this, then run away,

ianc

[dtw]

Clarify - was the engine run without the guides? If so, price as a core with known bad pistons/cylinders. If it was not run since this 'rebuild', then price as a core (since it was not really a true rebuild and the quality of existing workmanship is questionable).

I think I found the ad, and if I have the right one, details of this engine are hard to obtain. If it had the 'good' heads and no miles since the rebuild, I'd go $2.5-3k, unknown I'd be down near $2-2.5k purchase price on this engine. Deduct an additional 500-750 if run at all without the air guides.

[juicersr]

Thanks to all. Dave, the engine was not run without the cooling guides. (They were just in bad shape before the rebuild, when the engine was in the car and running great 8 month ago according to the pelicanite, who is a great and straightforwd) No overheating when run, even in summer. BTW, the pelicanite is a flat-6 newbie whose family runs an auto repair shop. He seems willing to negotiate a lower price and i will do the relatively simple teardown of the cam towers and placement of sheetmetal, and retime the cams myself to make sure done right as the engine hasn't even been turned over yet. (Sigh, another unexpected winter project) Just gotta source the cooling tin.

[dtw]

I'm pretty sure I can put together a spare set of tin if a set from a 2.7 will work - other than that, sounds good. You might want to check the ring installation and measure out the piston and cylinder wear too, while you've got everything apart.

[juicersr]

D'oh!


Dave, PM me if you have a set of cooling tin you want to get rid of. Will cooling tin from any engine 2.0 and up work on a 3.0?

[Gunter]

Whatever tin you get, make sure it has the upgrade cut-outs in the baffles recommended by Porsche.
Get a Bentley if you don't have one already.
Still asking: Are the P/C's Mahle or KS?

[juicersr]

Gunter, this guys reused the stock cylinders which i assumed were Mahles since it is from an 81 engine. Do you count the number of cylinder cooling fins to be sure? Also, do you have to have cooling sheet metal specific for an SC or will a 2.7 work?

[tfiv]

In addition to critical missing parts, you are also assured that a complete moron did the engine work. You'll find lots of other problems.

[juicersr]

At least he didn't touch the bottom end! WTF... time to brush on top end skilz anyay...

[mb911]

my 81 had ks