Oil loss during valve adjustment?

Danny_Ocean · 12-07-2006, 09:35 PM

I stopped by a local shop to ask about cost/turnaround time for a valve adjustment. Mechanic says he'll have to replace the oil/filter after doing the valve adjustment...? Is this so? I read a few manuals (including 101 Projects) and there is no mention of having to drain oil for this procedure. I just did an oil change and don't want to throw away 11 qts. of perfectly good oil (and a new Mahle filter) if I don't have to.

Should I find another mechanic?

2.7RACER · 12-07-2006, 09:50 PM

In a commercial shop your car will be placed on a hydraulic lift for access to the valves. This saves labor at the rate of $60 to $100 per hour.
To save the oil means lifting drivers side then passenger side on the floor. More labor and most shops don't want their people on the ground.
Either do it yourself on the ground or pay the going rate.

Danny_Ocean · 12-07-2006, 10:08 PM

I don't follow. What is the difference between the car being on the ground and on a lift? Does the oil pour out if the car is elevated?

And what does "pay the going rate" have to do with anything about my question?

2.7RACER · 12-07-2006, 10:17 PM

Danny,
By tilting the car up on one side, you can remove the lower valve cover with maybe a cup of oil loss.
On a lift or with the back end up and level the oil runs out when the lower covers are removed.
It comes down to saving the oil and paying more in labor or losing the oil and paying less in labor.
Your choice. If you can find a shop that will do it that way.

Danny_Ocean · 12-07-2006, 10:19 PM

OK, I understand now. I'm not concerned about the price of the oil. I don't want to pay a shop for an oil change that I didn't need.

Thanks,

D. Ocean

dentist90 · dentist90's Garage

The exhaust valve covers are a bear to get at (actually nothings easy to get at with the engine in place) with the car on the ground. It's easier to lift the car up on a hoist to access the lower valve covers and shops will do this as they have a hoist. If you had a hoist you'd do the same. The car will lose a bit of oil with the covers removed, but not tons. Hint: oil return tubes are where oil flows from valve train back to sump.
My advice: 1. wait until oil change due and adjust valves at that time
2. drain oil from engine sump only but keep new oil filter
and top up oil after valve adjust

2.7RACER · 12-07-2006, 10:31 PM

Danny,
Lots of questions come up when a shop is doing work for you. My best advice is to ask around about the various shops that do Porsche work. There are several shops in your area that do great work and treat the customers fairly. Black Forrest comes to mind. I'm sure there are more. The best shops are usually busy, but worth working into their schedule.
The good ones can usually recommend someone if you need work done quicker or closer to you.

Danny_Ocean · 12-07-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2.7RACER
Black Forrest comes to mind. I'm sure there are more. The best shops are usually busy, but worth working into their schedule.

I'm in Ft. Lauderdale (and Las Cruces).

The only reason I posted was my suspicion the mechanic was trying to sell an oil change. I didn't realize oil would drain thru the valve covers (it doesn't on my American cars!).

Thanks all,

D. Ocean

York · 12-08-2006, 07:09 AM

For what it is worth, I just did a valve adjustment on my '66 without draining the oil, and it lost 2 or 3 quarts when I opened the exhaust valve covers, none from the intake. It was on level ground, not on a lift, jack or stands. It was a bit messy compared to just draining the oil first, but I was able to catch everything with a standard drain pan. I think most shops are going to do an oil change since it is easier, cleaner and just makes a lot of sense.

petrolblue83911 · 12-08-2006, 08:02 AM

What is being said is correct, and I suspect that most shops don't want to deal with the mess of all that oil so draining it down is the way to go. I also suspect that what your shop will do is to

-drain the engine crank oil

-leave the tank as it is

-leave the filter in (if you tell them that it's a new filter)

and when done, just replace the 4-5 quarts from the engine. If you are really oil pickey, give them 5 quarts of the oil you used in your last change and have them use that

petrolblue83911 · 12-08-2006, 08:04 AM

What I said in the end there sounds different from what I meant!- I meant, bring 5 new quarts of the same oil you just used and have them re-fill with that.

john walker's workshop · 12-08-2006, 08:13 AM

people often do an oil change at home and then bring the car to a shop to do a valve adjustment. i give the customer the option of saving the oil in a clean container to reuse, but most realize their mistake and go for new oil. too much chance of getting it contaminated from dirt that falls off the car. i'm not going to tip a car and work on the ground to adjust valves just to save oil. see my signature.

Early_S_Man · 09:34 AM

What most people on the board aren't aware of is that an oil change [both engine and transaxle] used to be a standard part of any major factory-approved service, including a tune-up. EMPI used to sell a large, double cooling-fan machine that was used to cool down a 911 engine up on a lift so a valve adjustment could be done an hour after the hot engine oil was drained.

I have also seen 911 and 912 transaxles that went many, many years without having the gear oil changed! The early factory service charts showed gear oil changes at the same time as engine oil changes. That was when standard SAE 90 GL5 gear oil [no multi-weight gear oil] was the factory fill and recommended gear oil for 901, 911, and 915 transaxles.

livi · 12-08-2006, 11:49 AM

Danny,

How many miles / how long ago since last valve adjust ? If reasonably recent and no obvious symptoms of valve "mal-adjustment" - why not wait until next oil change ?

Noney · 12-08-2006, 01:39 PM

Hey Danny,

What shop are you going to in Ft. Lauderdale? When I have to visit a wrench, I only go to German Performance, just off Commercial Blvd. Mike Gokey is a great guy and the service is absolutely top-notch. While you're in there, ask him about the V8 crate motors he puts in 944's. Outrageous!

Formerly Steve Wilkinson · 12-08-2006, 02:53 PM

The only oil you need to drain if you do a valve adjustment is the oil in the sump. You never touch the 10+ quarts in the tank anyway. Drain a few quarts out of the sump into a clean container and put them back in when you're done. Or replace them with a few new quarts if you're finicky.

Danny_Ocean · 12-08-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noney
Hey Danny,

What shop are you going to in Ft. Lauderdale? When I have to visit a wrench, I only go to German Performance, just off Commercial Blvd.

Yes, that's where I'm going. However, German Performance is not the shop that mentioned the oil-change. The first shop I visited (which shall remain un-named) had me concerned as the place was messy and the mechanic was talking to me while seated inside a customers car...with a smoldering cig hanging from his lip.

So...German Performance it is!

Nine9six · Nine9six's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Danny_Ocean
I stopped by a local shop to ask about cost/turnaround time for a valve adjustment. Mechanic says he'll have to replace the oil/filter after doing the valve adjustment...? Is this so? I read a few manuals (including 101 Projects) and there is no mention of having to drain oil for this procedure. I just did an oil change and don't want to throw away 11 qts. of perfectly good oil (and a new Mahle filter) if I don't have to.

Should I find another mechanic?

In a word...YES
Absolutely no need for another filter if you just replaced due to an oil change. As mentioned above many times, you only need to replace the oil you loose from the sump 2-3 qts.