New Porsche Super Car

Wonder if anybody heard anything about new Porsche super car? size of engine? layout? or even spy photo?

Andy
'87 Carrera

According to Autobahn.com:

"The NEW Porsche 980, internal code S1, is a 700 hp, 5.4 liter mid engine coupe based on the race car developed for Le Mans. It will be the fastest street legal Porsche ever with a top speed rumoured to be 360 kph (224 mph). The engine is a V8 biturbo based on the one that was developed for the Cayenne. Production will not start before 2003. Price is estimated at 750,000 DM. Very limited production. Cars will only be produced in Weissach and will have carbon fiber body."

Of course, that's largely based on rumors. The current issue of Panorama suggests that a production 980 isn't likely at all.



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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 09-22-2000).]

I may be the only guy who cares, but wouldn't all of the new Porsches look better without those goofy, trendy headlamps? I'll put my Photoshop where my mouth is, even.



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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe

I CANNOT STAND THE NEW LIGHTS!!!!

HOW SHAMEFUL IS IT THAT YOU CAN CONFUSE THE FRONT OF A 911 WITH THE LESSER BOXSTER!

911'S ARE IN A LEAGUE OF THEIR OWN.

NOW THE 996'S ARE LONG...INSTEAD OF THE COMPACT SHAPE

THE DOOR HANDLES SUCK

THE NOTORIOUS BOTTOM HINDGED PEDALS ARE GONE

EVERYTHING IS EROGONOMIC

NO MORE AIR-COOLING

THE INSIDES LOOK COMICAL INSTEAD OF THE STERN UTILITARIAN GERMAN LOOK OF THE OLDER CARS

ALL THE WONDERFUL IDIOSYNCHROCIES OF THE 911'S ARE DEAD.

I THINK PORSCHE HAS BECOME MORE OF A CORPORATION THEN A CAR MAKER...

LOOK AT THEIR SLOW RETRACTION FROM RACING...AND NOW AN SUV!!!! I SWEAR THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END

IN MY OPINION, PORSCHE STOPS WITH THE 993 TURBO AND TURBO S....NOTHING AFTER THAT DESERVES THE NAME PORSCHE OR 911 ON IT

just my 2 cents...

I feel your pain. Porsches have been unique in that form follows function. This may be the most important distinction. One of the most successful "differentiation" strategies in auto making. Every student of business strategy is cringing at the change in personality happenning at Porsche. Getting away from what made you successful, changing reputations, makes companies second-rate performers. Without exception.

That being said, this 980 has more than a little beauty. It does look like the brute Porsches are expected to be, and with 700 rumored horsepower and 225 rumored mph, there would be no rumor out there that could beat it.

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'83 SC

Those ugly headlights. I can't immagine why Porsche hasn't changed them. I have heard NO ONE in the 911 camp that likes the idea of sharing the front half of the car with the Boxter. Cheapens the whole car. I have to look really close at a 911 cab to be sure it isn't a Boxter. The 911 Turbo even has the same air vents on the sides. So I guess you could tell folks that your Boxter is really a 911 Turbo Cab.

I bet the f***'in thing doesn't even leak oil properly.

Bill '79SC

It's about time that Porsche has something that could be an excellent successor to the 959. Why not go with the F-6 engine though?

Nice headlight change Jack. Makes it look like a real Porsche.

Anybody questioning the waterpumpers have to remember that all the great Porsche racecars since the '70's have had atleast watercooled heads including the 959.

Now if I could just find someone to loan me the money for a 980 (959/2 or 959B)



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'76 911S

'80 924 M471

I've read the same article at Panorama as well, however I've also read an article in Auto-Week, saying that it's likely Porsche will build "something" to compete with the Ultra High Performance Mercedes Benz, and BMW supercars... (I forget names, sorry)...

We do live in a world, where even Porsche could use an "image" car!

Well, anyway, I hate to disagree, but except for the very cheap interior of the earlier 996s, and the somewhat heavier nature of them, I like the cars a lot.

While I'm at it, I'll conclude by saying (most of you don't really stand behind the 996 anyway, but...) I think the Boxter S is much better of a car than a normal 996...

We can always wait for the 996 TT GT3, at least it's getting built for sure, I forget the specs, is it 60 more hp, only rear drive, and lighter (by deleting options, sound deadenning, very Porsche indeed)...

911 RSR anybody? I don't think Porsche has grown that much worse, +pulling out of racing for SUV thing, I think I heard something about the (air intake) restrictor plate size/location change at LeMans, which gave more advantage to Vipers, since they run naturally aspirated. Porsche wouldn't really stand a chanse with the current models. I'd expect (and hope no less) Porsche to get back next year, and kick some Viper rear... Now for the GT1 class, specially when they already had a model ready to go (a competitive one according to an earlier issue of excellence) is another issue...

Lets hope for the best,
Happy motoring,
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

82SC I'm with you all the way except for saying that the new models aren't worthy to bear the Porsche name. I think they are, in fact I think both the 986 and the 996 are great Porsches. BUT calling the 996 a 911 is a joke. Let me sum up:

A 911 is compact, bases its looks on the 63 901, it has ROUND headlamps, old "beetle" pedals, 5 round instruments inside, it has real doorhandles (not something that looks Toyota like), it makes the best sound in the world (because it's aircooled) and it has a lot of silly details which you come to like with time.

The 996 is too perfect, too non 911 looking and I could go on. What annoys me most about the 996 is that it makes NO SOUND!!! How can Ferraris sound great and still live up to noise rules when Porsches cannot?

Yes I know the 959 + many race 911s had water cooled cylinder heads. BUT they still had the airblower fan and they still had the aircooled sound!

You can't have a 911 legend for 35 years and then suddenly change it completely.

I agree you response is much more thought out. Mine more in a fit of rage.

Okay...they are porsches...like the 968, 928, and 944, BUT THEY ARE NO 911!!!!

I was in a 996 last year for a few days. Nice car but its a Mercedes not a Porsche! Very sanitised and civilised.

Guy who owned it lusted after my 3.2 Carrera though!

Roy

The old 356 guys used to make the same kinds of complaints about the 911's. I think it must be hard to run a company, when customer loyalty boarders on religous zeal. Lucky for me, my pocketbook keeps me from even thinking about buying a brand new Porsche, or even a 993, or even a late model Carerra, so I've got many years of air-cooled driving left.

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Bill Krause
'79 911SC Euro

HOW SHAMEFUL IS IT THAT YOU CAN CONFUSE THE FRONT OF A 911 WITH THE LESSER BOXSTER!

How shameful, actually, that you place so much value on image, as opposed to function. The Boxster is a fine automobile. So is the 911. I like the look of both...as a 911 owner, I prefer the 911, but that doesn't make me look on other cars as "lesser" Porsches. I'm actually looking into buying a 944 as a second car. Why the prejudice? Does the Boxster lessen the image of the 911, simply because it costs less than the 911?

You know, at one time, Porsche carried many models of cars - the 911, 914, 924, 944, 928 and however many racing versions. Just because they choose to make a high-profit SUV - the proceeds from which will catapult Porsche right back into racing domination - doesn't mean the end of Porsche for sports car enthusiasts. It means they're catering, wisely, to their core audience: affluent professional who already own a sports car, who would like a Porsche to drive to the mall in the snow.

Ease up on Porsche. They can't continue to make specifically *your* car. Be happy they made it to begin with, and still make the parts for it. I know I am!

Flame on.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

The 911 is special and should remain unique in appearance nomatter what you think of the other "lesser" cars. The 911 has always been the flagship and icon of Porsche. They gotta make a buck so must apeal to the masses. This shouldn't mean that the 911 fades into the muck. They found a way to make the 944 and the 928 asthetically unique (the 914 - well that IS unique).

I drove a 986 before and it's a great car. I think it's Porsche marketing strategy not having a bigger engine in it. In June 2000 issue of Excellence, Gemballa put a 996 engine in a Boxster. It's fast and handles great. Don't compare the Boxster with 996. Remember how 914 was under appreciated in the '70. Besides, not everybody can drive a 911, espeically the original one.

Andy
'87 Carrera

hmmm...I think I rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. I think we should start a new thread with a better title...I bet this topic would stay at the top of the board for months...

I guess I am a purist at heart
I love racing, and hope to take my car out to POC and PCA events in the future, but my car will remain as stock as possible..because I am a purist.

Well maybe besides the momo steering wheel (even that will have a porsche button on it), and maybe a 3.2L upgrade...BUT THAT IS IT...No Recaro seats...no roll cage...no stupid 993 conversion for my SC...my car is what it is...an old classy porsche and I do not want to hide that.

But on to my previous comment of the "lesser" porsches...
I guess to me porsche will always be the 911's. Sure the Boxster and the 996's leave my car in the dust in every catagory except one...character

I love the 356 and the 928 and even the 912, but Porsche is 911...look at the failed attempt to make the 928 their marque car. It failed...in ways it was vastly superior to the regular 911's, but the bulk of the porsche enthusiasts were 911 lovers...why because of the character of the cars

odd A/C and heater controls...a blind man must have designed that...and the bottom hinged pedals...an engineer with a universal ball joint for and ankle designed that. the odd but traditional race influenced left handed key...placements of the wiper switcheS....air cooling...every one at porsche knew all of these things were not the most erogonomic design...but they survived for many years becasue of the character...that is what made a 911 special...not the rubber stamped econo boxes...why the hell does Ferrari keep that stupid gated shifter...because of TRADITION!!! Why does Jaguer keep that stupid J-shaped shifter...because of TRADITION!!!! Why are lotus so beautiful and erogonomically stuck in the stone ages...because of TRAD..well actually cause they are british....look at the cheap comercialization of BMW for the bond movies...how gay is that. all we keep is the left handed key...but we have toyota door handles now...and tiny guages...no more enormous tach...but now a cute cluster of gauges linked ever so gracefully blah blah crap crap crap crap crap...

Now with $$ more important then tradition and the generation gap from good ole Dr. Ferri Porsche, tradition has gone the way of the dodo...now Porsche is a corporation that has to cater to the masses and not to the core group of enthusists...not their fault...by not doing this they go bankrupt and die...but to me it is hard to see tradition die...Now the cars have to be made as sensible as a honda accord so that Fifi and her dog can find the A/C switch...and as quiet as a Ford focus so William Norton the Third can talk on his cell phone to make sushi reservations...I frickin yell into my phone over the roar of my good old 3.0

Sure the 996's and the Boxster have gobs of power...more balanced handling...enormous stopping power...etc...but do they have character...yes but not like the 993's and back....are they porsches? yes...but till the day they bury me in my (future) 993 turbo...Porsche will always bring memories of the 356's, 911, 993, (oh and the 917's, GT1)

When will I see the Porsche crest on a F1 car...or even a factory Le Mans car....Porsche is definately losing their heritage...and that is what make me sad

Not that I think any less of the newer cars...I do not want death threats from all the happy 996 and Boxster owners...but they just do not float my boat. Maybe it is the masses of people who are buying these newer cars for the look rather then for the tradition that is making me a bitter man...I am sure my son will be a feverish lover of the 996's (not if I can help it). I guess I am to the 356ers what the 996er's are to me...just the next wave...I respect the cars for what they are...would I buy one? never...would some people buy my 82 SC...probably not...on any day I would take a 993 twin turbo over any of the new cars...

Porsche gets in your blood...scareeeeeeee

[This message has been edited by 82SC (edited 09-26-2000).]

To keep the focus positive: is there a more desirable 911, overall, than the 993 Turbo S?

I mean, I love my 73, and would never sell it (and with the bigger engine and higher gearing, it should be a lot of fun on the track). And of course any reasonable person would have to acknowlege that the 996 turbo is better than any preceding turbo, if you just go by the numbers.

But if round headlights, classic 911 styling, and the sound of an air cooled engine are deal breakers for you (as they are for me) is there a better mass-produced 911 to have than the 993 turbo?



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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe

The 993 Turbo is one of my all time favorite 911s too.

Please notice everybody: I LIKE the 944, the 924 and the 986 Boxster. BUT the 911 is my religion! What troubles me with the 996 is that Porsche could have done better.

My Porsche (911) fanatism started around the age of 8. When I saw a 911 pass by in the traffic I would turn my head and say to my mom "look mom a Porsche". I'm not sure why I started to like the 911, I just did. I walked the streets with my friend looking for exciting cars. Every time we saw an unusual car we looked at the speedometer to see how fast it could go. My friends all liked Lamborghini and Ferrari, but I remained faithful to Porsche. One day at the age of 17 a nice guy took me for a ride in his 1976 Carrera 3,0. THIS CHANGED MY WORLD!!! How could a car be this quick? I was pushed so hard into the seat by the acceleration. And the sound....the perfect seats......the beatiful huge rev counter in the middle...the strange looking pedals..etc. etc. The 911 had a magic aura which completely took over my mind. No matter what I had to have one! This romanticised "911 world" got stuck in my mind. I still feel that unexplainable exotic childhood feeling today when I look at my 911 parked in the sun. Sometimes I need to remind myself that in fact this is MY 911.

So now you hopefully understand why I'm so touchy about the 911. It's like the slogan: "There is no substitute"

HOWEVER when I look at my friend's 996 Cabriolet I don't get that special magic feel. When I sit in the drivers seat I don't feel like being inside something totally different to all other cars. The pedals are normal, the interior is normal, the sound is normal etc. The wild "only car like this in the world" feeling is missing. Suddenly the slogan doesn't count anymore. Now there is in fact a substitute! What is it about the 996 that you can't get with a Ferrari 360 or even a Mercedes, apart from the rear placed engine?

Now you might all think that I'm taking this WAY too seriously, but as I said; this is my "religion". (and I know some perfectly normal people who agree with my opinion)

Am I writing too much text about this subject?

[This message has been edited by Mikkel (edited 09-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mikkel (edited 09-26-2000).]

Bill Krause your so right about the "purist point of view" ala 356,911,964... If we were real purist though we would be driving mid- engine Porsches like the Boxster,914 or the original no.1 356. Ferrys' mid-engine creation. The first Porsche. You see the Boxster and the 996 are wonderful modern sports, not to be confused with old sports cars which have a completely different character. I myself like old sports cars for there character and nostalgia. I think retro cars are interesting but I sure wouldn't buy one. Why buy an imitation when you can by the real thing cheaper? OK I guess there is that maintenance thing. But that's part of the nostalgia if you ask me. If I was going to buy a "modern" sports car though I'd go for the RUF Boxster. By the way Jack I'd take your 911T with that beautiful paint job and the 3.6 over the 993. But thats just me.