Whats the scoop on the new ER rear suspension?

Elombard · 09-12-2006, 03:33 PM

Anybody have the details or more pictures from Ventura? Did I miss it? I dont see anything at the website.

Chuck Help! :-)

88-diamondblue · 09-12-2006, 04:57 PM

I was also hoping to see some pictures of all the new "need to have go fast goodies" . Looking forward to seeing what is new..

Chuck Moreland · 09-13-2006, 11:15 AM

I was so busy at the show, I never did take any pictures. But lot's of people did, maybe someone can post.

My website isn't updated yet. I've got no time right now, but I will try to post some more pics / info shortly.

Peter C2 · Peter C2's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland
I was so busy at the show, I never did take any pictures. But lot's of people did, maybe someone can post.

My website isn't updated yet. I've got no time right now, but I will try to post some more pics / info shortly.

Chuck, Got any pics and additonal info? Thanks!

lateapex911 · 09-15-2006, 02:40 PM

All I can say is that it better not be way trick, cool or a vast improvement, as i just upgraded mine to the WEVO SPS system.

But I know your stuff Chuck, so I realize that I have little hope, LOL.

I only hope it's expensive!

Elombard · 09-15-2006, 02:43 PM

At least tell us what it is. 4 link with T bars or have to go to coil overs in the back?

Estimated price?
ETA?

lateapex911 · 09-17-2006, 08:21 PM

any more info???

cab83_750 · 09-17-2006, 09:42 PM

I am subscribing.

ttweed · ttweed's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland
I was so busy at the show, I never did take any pictures. But lot's of people did, maybe someone can post.

Chuck Miller posted this pic of it at the Early S Registry site:

TT

rvanderpyl · rvanderpyl's Garage

Thank god it won't be available for SWB cars

(will it?)

lateapex911 · 09-18-2006, 06:59 AM

Thats interesting. looks like it keeps the trailing arm, but changes the spring plate to eliminate the cumbersome toe and camber eccentrics.

At first glance, you'd think "4 link", but it doesn't appear so.

It looks like the bushings are probably poly bronzes with a specific retainer. I hope Chuck checks in here to tell us how it works. I assume it's height, toe and camber adjustable.

Elombard · 09-18-2006, 07:01 AM

Wow...that looks like not an inexpensive option. How much camber can you get with that bad boy I wonder.

Quicksilver · 07:45 AM

It is a 4 link of a slightly different bent...

The bottom link bolts to the stock torsion bar link, which acts as the forward pivot for the bottom link. The top link attaches in front and to the outside of the torsion bar bushing. This position of the upper link increases the camber curve.

It can be a little hard to visualize but if you imagine this taken to an extreme it is pretty easy to understand. Imagine if the upper link was attached where the hole in the fender for the t-bar is located. It is pretty easy to visualize that this would make the upper link swing inward as the suspension moves upward thus increasing the camber change.

Chuck's design is a fair bit less aggressive then that. One of the cool things is if you shorten or lengthen the upper and lower links by equal amounts you are changing the rear toe. If you change the upper and lower lengths in opposite but equal amounts, you are changing the camber. Pretty slick.

One thing that I am still noodling over is what the changes in the pivot point will do to the spring rate. It will change it slightly but the change will be very small.

I would like to see how durable it is in a destruction/abuse situation. An offroad rally test and the aftermath of a couple rear corner collisions would be nice to see.

Kroggers · Kroggers's Garage

And what about the $$$$ - how much??

Par911 · 09-18-2006, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kroggers
And what about the $$$$ - how much??

you know what they say, if you have to ask.....

Elombard · 09-18-2006, 08:10 AM

i cant visualize how changing the lengths affects camber, seems like it would just rotate the axle housing? On the stock set up you physically move it upward to change camber. I am sure it works just cant picture...

Oh wait, I see if you shorten the upper arm the camber curve is stronger. So its best of both worlds. Less camber strait ahead, as the car rolls in a corner you get more camber than the stock set up for increased contact patch in both situations??? Right?

lateapex911 · 09-18-2006, 08:23 AM

Yea, it's pretty shrewd, I'll say that. Not a classic 4 link, but it does appear to solve some issues all at once, and that's always a good design. I was unsure of the upper pivot point, as it's hidden from view in the pic. How is height adjusted?

Elombard · 09-18-2006, 08:53 AM

It looks like you adjust the height same as before, with the ecentric oblong bolt up near the T bar.

Chuck Moreland · 09-18-2006, 01:03 PM

Glad to see all the interest! Some of the speculation is on the money.

Here is the display that was at GAF:

And a little animation from the CAD assembly drawings:

The product name is ASP (Adjustable Spring Plate). It works with torsion bars or coil overs and any standard spring plate bushing. Supports factory AL or steel trailing arms, currently LWB only but SWB is on the horizon.

It's function is to make the camber curve more aggressive (as was done in the 993), thereby achieving a superior contact patch and superior grip.

The aggressive curve achieves optimal camber in turns without requiring the excessive static camber traditionally needed to make the stock setup work. It thereby avoids the many negative consequences of running lots of static camber (excessive tire wear, poor contact patch for braking and acceleration, rolling resistance, and off camber inside tire in turns).

The net result is superior grip. And the ability to go from street to track without running "compromise" alignment settings.

A secondary benefit is ease of setup. Static camber and toe are set using the upper and lower double-adjusters. Turn them both the same direction to set toe, opposite direction to set static camber. The adjustments are performed with the vehicle weight sitting on the tires, and can even be performed with the vehicle flat on the ground. You can just reach under and turn the adjusters.

I am not exaggerating when I say the ease-of-setup is a dramatic improvement. DRAMATIC.

The product is in testing now. I had it out to couple PCA Autocrosses this past weekend and pulled TTOD on Sunday. I'm taking it to Buttonwillow this weekend for some big track excercise.

Planning price is $1200/set, the Polybronze adds about $300 to that.

Elombard · 09-18-2006, 01:29 PM

Neat so my poly bronze will work with this.

How did it "feel" at the autocross course was it significant?

I guess the benefits run deep

ease of set-up
potentially run less ARB
potentislly softer rear springs

The last two might make a huge difference on a track car and optimize the contact patch or am I off base.