A 911 guys needs advice... whats this 928 worth?

Hi all:

First off, I'm a 911 guy. I sold my 84 3.2 just last fall. I still have a 912E. I am not going to the water-cooled dark side.

But, I am looking at the following, and need your guesstimates as to it's value:

*1984 928S
*5spd.
*bad, bad interior with cracked dash and torn seats.
*needs repainted. nose cracked. and clear coat faded, stripped away in some areas.
*small rust spot near hatch on top of quarter-panel.
*about 95k, but the odometer has stuck. Not sure of exact mileage.
*daily driver, looks to be mechanically solid.
*leaks a little oil from pan
*timing belt done less than two years/10k ago
*little noise from 2nd and 3rd syncros.

Good side: seems to be a solid car. Body is straight with no evidence of accidents. Can be traced back to original owner. Some service records. Car on third owner right now. Seems to run well.

I'm looking at this as a beater/project. I KNOW what you're going to say: "you're crazy", but you've got to admit it's an enticingly comfortble car to drive around in and not worry if someone dings the door!

What's it worth? I think the owner thinks it's worth a bit more than I do. But, I'd like your collective opinion so that I have some bargaining power/logic.

Thanks all!!!!!!!!

Dave

$3500.

In great shape with 95K mi it would be around 8-9K.

A repaint - 2000

? on motor - used motor 2250

Bad interior - 1000 for OK used replacements

9000-2000-2250-1000=3725

Its worth 3725; as the break even point for comparison to a nice example; not accounting for time and aggravation.

It will never sell for as low as that; so a realistic # would be 5K; and may be worth it if you were definitely not going to fix it up!!! If you want a nice one, buy a nice one, don't try to make a nice one

928s are generally good cars, but they didn't really get it fully right until the '87 model year. Pre-87 cars just don't bring much on the market.
The 85.5 to 86 are kind of transition models, so they can sometimes bring some $$.
But pre-85 is a tough sell, at least for US versions.

Don't forget the tranny problems that the early manual cars had. You know how expensive these cars are to repair. I can't tell you what it is worth, but obviously not much.

Guys,

Thanks for your thoughts. I like both the "off the cuff" and the empirical guesstimates.

If I decide to make an offer, I've decided I can't legitimize spending over $4250.

Do you think an offer of $4K is ludicrous?

I mean, that's what everyone seems to think it's worth, But I have NO desire to insult the owner. He's had it for sale for a long while, and he tells me he hasn't had any real offers. But I don't want him to think I'm trying to take advantage of his inability to sell it. Rather, I just can't spend more than it's worth for such a "money pit" type of car.

He's a nice guy, but I'm (potentially) buying a 928 with a broken odometer. I'm not contemplating purchasing a "nice guy".

The car could be tons of money to get right, if I can ever get it right. But, I really don't want to be out of line by offering what seems to be so little cash. Also, we don't have any records when the timing belt was last done. It's recommended every 60k, and the owner says it was done in 98 (about 10k or so ago), but no verification. The records are nonexistant otherwise. He has records of what he's done since early 99. But that's it.

Your thoughts? Thanks A TON in advance. Remember, you guys are the Porsche owners, so if you'd be insulted then I'll know where I'm at on this one.

Thanks so much everybody,

Dave

Don't forget Porsche rips you a new one for there better than gold 928 parts.

Randy Jones
1971 911

I got interested in a similar 928S that appeared in the local paper here in Denver a couple of months ago. The seller was asking $1500 for it with a bad transmission. The rest of the car was in better shape with fewer miles than the car you describe. I mentioned it to my regular mechanic who does work on my 83SC, a guy whom I completely trust. His reply to me cooled my interest! I beleive he said something like: "I don't think that as scrap, it's worth more than a couple of hundred. Don't offer more."

I only retell this story because I, too, am a 911 guy but I got attracted to the idea of a 928 "beater." I understand that these cars do have a following and I still think they are special cars but a very good mechanic steered me away in no uncertain terms.

For what it's worth,

Jess

Never really understood the concept of an offer being insulting. Any offer seems like a good offer to me, the seller is in a better position that he was before the offer, because now he has an option: Take it or not take it.
I certainly see NOTHING wrong in offering $4000, not only is it not insulting, I think its a pretty favorable offer for the seller.
Just my opinion.

I've seen cars like that one in Auto Trader at asking prices around 5K. So a 4K offer is not insulting. Look into buying a second parts car for cheap parts.

Thanks a million guys.

As always, the collective advice is much appreciated.

Dave

Dave:

As the man said, any offer is a good one and you are being generous. As the current owner of 4 928s from 1980 to 1989 in conditions ranging from an incomplete vehicle on which the PO spent $20k on restoration and I bought in process, to a fairly sharp 89 S4 manual, the older 2 cam cars have some virtues for the DIY guy and offer a fine chassis for not so much bucks. Used parts are available for not too much. The trannies are good and I in fact prefer a Porsche syncro box even with worn syncros to the later Borg-Warner syncro box. More character and the feel is somehow "right." The two cam engines are lighter by I'd guess a hundred pounds. They can be made to scream with proper cams, valves, pistons, etc. for not a heck of a lot of dough. I've heard that 400 hp is not too expensive. But avoid rpms over 6200 like poison! I've always wanted to strip the heck out of one of these and recreate the old Ferrari Daytona comp. coupe effect for less bucks. Check out the price of Corvette parts that aren't part of the sedan deal and the 928 isn't really that crazy. The 928 is capable, but I'm afraid a fairly fat lady in need of a diet. As for the condition of the car, it indicates DELAYED MAINTAINANCE which could cost possibly cost you. Throw away the seats and replace with some lightweights and save 100 plus pounds. Maybe some of those hot women, a little politics, and some beer will put that price down in the bargain basement. Gosh, all said and done its gotta be half the price of a new Escort!

thanks Dan. I'm thinking of making an offer next week. I'll keep you posted.

Dave

Dave - my mechanic has a few salvage 928s for parts if you take the plunge on this one.

Thanks, I'll be letting you know. I may make an offer this week. Can we cross our collective fingers?

Thanks!

Dave

Give Howard a call at European Classics in Atlanta. Howard is a 928 nut!!!! Thats all he works on and knows them well. I bet he can give you a reasonable price to ask based on the aforementioned problems. 770/409-9246.
Its worth a call. Good luck.

BR

Dave, not to rain on your parade, since you seem dead-set on that car, but doesn't is make more sense to just spend $7500-8000 for a really nice example? Your gonna have that much in the car before you know it, and its still just gonna be a "resurrected" car, rather than a well kept and well maintained original, which is usually a much better car in the long run.
Just my thought. Good luck!

Hi all:

Well, I bought it the other day. The PO took the offer of $4K. I was not interested in paying more, and he agreed to the value.

I got a handful of repair receipts for a bunch of stuff, The repairs done since Jan 99 total in the area of $3500!

Also, I have a copy of the original bill of sale... $51,600 in 1984! (Factory options: $2150 for full leather, limited slip, no charge for the 5spd, bunch of radio options which add up to eight speakers, special order paint, 928-badge delete on the rear valance, sunroof, dual power seats, and some other junk... about $8K in options overall).


My mechanic (who actually worked at Porsche when the 928 was in development and assisted in the work on prototype #2) drove the car Saturday. He said everything is in order mechanically, down to the brake pads and tires! Also, he thinks we can get copies of receipts from all the work done on the car from the local dealership.

The service manual was included and it has local Porsche dealer stamps up to about 20,000 miles ago, from the original owner I guess. I think that in addition to the repair receipts I have, the dealer receipts should give me a better idea of it's maintenance history and potentially benefit me if I ever choose to sell it.

After a day of playing around in the garage, I came to the realization that the car is just filthy. I've been cleaning for two days, and it looks a LOT better. I do need a new "S" front spoiler though. The one on it is shot.

I got the sunroof to work also. The grease was glue-like in it's consistency. After every 1/2 hour periodic WD-40 and SeaFoam spray downs and some appropriate grease, it works fine!

It needs some paint, and maybe the front seats need recovered (but the power mechanisms work on both sides!), but pretty much everything else works or will work cheaply. Even the aftermarket Blaupunkt CD player works well.

It was just aligned two weeks ago and the car runs straight and true. It's no 911, but the rumble from a V8 (a Porsche V8!) is just a lot of fun.

Thanks for all you help guys. I sent the PO this link when we were negotiating, and your candid appraisals and advice helped in my effort to lower his asking price. I found out he originally was asking $9500!

Dave

Dave:

Congratulations: It sounds that the PO lost a bunch of money due to his lack of interest and recent lack of easy maintainence on the beast. Most of the power switched etc. respond to cleaning should they go south. Shop for those seats. You might be surprised at how reasonably you can find them if you look hard. It may be possible to remove the clearcoat and put on a thin coat of original color plus the clear! But you say it is going to be a beater, so do yo thang. The SOHC may not be so gosh awful powerful, but it is lighter than its twin cam sister and a lot easier for DIY. Be very careful with the electric system. Always have a good battery and avoid jump starts or battery r&r with the engine on. I've done it, but rumor has it that the brain could fry. Enjoy that Cadillac sports car for a whole lot less than any new econbox available any where. The 928 will probably outlast it by many miles. It isn't all that expensive to maintain for example steering racks and struts cost less than for my 951, and in many cases less than for the rice boys recycled Kiren Beer chassis. One guy I know has an old 928 that he used 2.5 944 pistons in and did some cam and headwork. This runs circles around his late model Vette! The most negative thing that I can say about the car is that it just isn't fun for starting and stopping every few blocks. But it just loves to keep on rollin'.

I think it's a ton of fun to drive. It's got a bunch of torque compared to my old 911 3.2, it's "right now" power, as opposed to hold on for a minute while we get to 3500RPM.

It's so much more comfortable than I imagined. It is not unlike a "Cadillac", as you noted. For a couple of big guys (I'm 6'2", 205LBS) like my friends and I, it's perfect. I took it to a restaurant the other night, and we took some girl with us in the back seat! It's somewhat useful.

Oh well, I'll be getting it painted in the spots it needs. When I say "beater", I mean daily driver. I don't mean to say it will be neglected, just that I don't intend to restore it to any type of concours condition. What would the point be? Like one poster here mentioned, I could've have a perfect one for under 10K, so no sense in dumping a ton of money into it. But, I will make it nice enough to drive and not be embarassed by it's appearance. And mechanically, it'll be maintained as it should be. I'm a preventative maintenance advocate.

Dan, How much should I expect to spend on a timing belt service?

Dave