How to tell if a 74 911 is an "s" and/or ROW
 

Hi,

I am looking at buying a 1974 911. The person selling it was told that it is an "S" (from day 1, and he's had it for like 15 years). But I got his VIN (911 410 1845) and according to that, it is not an S,
and in fact is not even a US coupe (it is a ROW car). He has lots of paperwork and the car (obviously). So what are other ways to tell if its really a Euro and/or S? Options, features, Engine serial no?

Thanks Marvin.

You can match the serial numbers up in the Red Book. I looked it up and the VIN you provided is for a base 911 and it does not appear that there was a difference between a US and ROW car (except for the Carrera) in 1974.

ROW car had the smaller bumper pads, and I believe amber lense on the back instead of red. As for if it's an S...look at the front brakes, and is it badged with 911S on the lid? I know all of this is easy to install after the fact, just a few things to look at.

Base 911 (150 hp) VIn coupe starts with 9114100001, targa starts with 9114110001. Engine numbers start with 6140001.

911S VIN starts with 9114300001 for coupe. 9114310001 for Targa. Engine numbers start with 6340001 for 175 hp motor.

911 Carrera VIN 9114400001 for coupe, 9114410001 for Targa. Engine numbers start with 6340001 (also 175 hp motor)

In '74 the bumper pads on the rear were the same between US and Euro. They put the bigger ones on US cars in 75.

My car built in 74 had larger pads.

with the model years running together, I would question that simply as it seemed Porsche would put on parts as they had them. That is why all the parts sites list "late 74 or Early 75" when you order parts.
:confused:

Happy New Year.

Marvin,

As the others have noted, you can tell whether it's a base 911 or a 911S from the chassis number, engine serial number and engine type number (911/92 for a base 911; 911/93 for an S.) If all three of these indicate a base 911, I'd suggest that the car is really a base 911, not an "S" as the seller thinks.

Determining whather or not it is a US car, or a car for the ROW markets, is a little harder, but it can be done. You have to examine the car in detail, and look for things that were different on the two versions. Keep in mind that things like lights were commonly changed, so I'd base my conclusions on things that were less likely to be updated by a previous owner. To do this, you have to either know the cars well or have good books to guide you.

For example, the US had different safety regulations than the rest of the planet. Things like the headlight switches and hazard switches had different labeling in this country. ROW cars were marked with international symbols only, on these two parts. US cars had additional wording on the switches, "LIGHTS" and "HAZARD," respectively, in addition to the symbols.

If it were a ROW car, the guages would be metric and typically have more wording in German. Take a look at the part numbers on each gauge and compare them with what you find in PET, the Porsche parts database. There a differences between the US cars and ROW cars in a couple of the gauges. I realize gauges can be changed, (although I've never seen ALL of them changed, usually just the speedo and maybe the temperature gauge,) so if you really want to get serious you can pop each gauge out and look at the date stamps on the back of each one. They won't always match, but they should be close, and they will always be stamped with dates that are not later than the car's production date.

There are many other examples of differences between cars for the two markets. I have only listed a couple to give you an idea of where to start. I have also found that every ROW car that I have purchased (three, so far) has had some evidence of having spent time in Europe. Loose change, toll or restaurant receipts, maps and other things have been left behind by previous owners. Look hard; there is usually some garbage somewhere in the car.

Look at the books. They sometimes differ from market to market. Are there service stamps in any of the books, or a listing of the first owner or original dealer?

I think if you spend enough time looking, the evidence you acumulate will point one way or another. Either way, you'll likely learn something along the way and this sort of detective work is fun, at least for me.

Happy hunting,


JR

K9handler,

I agree with you about the late vs early model year slight variations. I don't know that the factory was as exact as we all might think.

I friend and I have a running joke about "Hans and Frans" putting on the car what was available to them at the time. Somehow I don't think they obsessed about it, but I could be wrong.

Mark

Just out of curiousity, will not the data plate in the trunk also list type? For instance, my '74 Carerra shows the VIN and "911 SC"...

not in 74 or 75, just the vin and build data/spec.