Synthetic oils being redesigned - lower ZDDP

hcoles · 06-12-2007, 05:13 AM

On Rennlist there have been posts re. e.g. Mobil 1 has been redesigned to reduce ZDDP. Is there a Pelican thread on this?
Some reading points to using Redline street oils because they aren't signed up to test against the API criteria. Therefore I assume Redline has the needed levels of ZDDP. I read that ZDDP levels have been lowered to make cats last longer.

-Henry

iamchappy · iamchappy's Garage

Just use Brad Penn oil, it has all of the vitamins your engine needs.

RallyJon · 06-12-2007, 05:19 AM

Don't assume, test. If you're interested in a particular brands, see if you can find a test on bobistheoilguy.com or buy a quart and have it tested yourself.

Many oils have the right stuff if you want to run heavier weights. It's much harder to find the right additives in the lighter weight oils that later cars in cooler climates require.

There is a long thread or two here, and much of the information originally posted here trickled over to Rennlist (as is often the case).

Wavey · 06-12-2007, 05:36 AM

Here's EVERYTHING you need to know:

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

EarlyPorsche · 06-12-2007, 05:44 AM

I stocked up on the old Rotella T for a reason!

hcoles · 06-12-2007, 06:28 AM

Wavey, thanks for the link..pretty much all is there. I've been running M1 15-50 super-syn ... so now I can sleep at night again. ;-)
I'm running 0w-40 in a 1999 used BMW I just bought...so I think I'm ok on that... the chart of oil with Zn content/etc. is handy.

Wavey · 06-12-2007, 06:46 AM

Yeah, I had just done an oil change, first time with the new formula Mobil 1 15W-50, so I added a pint of the GM EOS additive. Not sure what I'll do next time, need to review the info again. But I think I'll change to the M1 filter for sure.

hcoles · 06-12-2007, 06:51 AM

I think the M1 15w-50 shows up on the chart as having enought ZDDP/etc. so you shouldn't need to add the GM juice... or am I not reading the info. correctly? I'm afraid not to use the OEM filter, but there are probably better filters out there...where did you get the M1 filter info? LN Engineering?

Wavey · 06-12-2007, 06:53 AM

It's in the report, I think closer to the end?

Steve@Rennsport · 06-12-2007, 07:01 AM

Just one man's opinion,.......Use the OEM oil filters,....

hcoles · 06-12-2007, 07:33 AM

yes Steve, I tend to agree. I haven't read that the OEM filter is not doing the job it needs to do... this is probably a case where if it isn't broke don't fix it....the upside is not worth the downside risk

Wavey · 08:43 AM

My decision was based on this, from Charles Novaro's report; do you disagree?

"It is very common to see the factory oil filter be the most recommended, and in our case it's usually a Mahle or Mann oil filter. For sure, it does meet the manufacturer's specifications, but we can do better. My filter of choice is the Mobil 1 branded filter. It has a synthetic filter media, anti-drainback valve, and is one of the best constructed filters I have seen, second to the K&N Gold filter which flows more and has a higher burst strength, but doesn’t filter particles as small as does the Mobil 1. For any oil, regardless of non-synthetic or synthetic and your drain interval, I would recommend using Mobil-1's filter."

Re: the additive, I had just changed to the extended performance version...

"The new SM formulation of Mobil 1 15w50 EP (extended performance) seems to have [reduced] the Zn and P significantly. I strongly recommend to those running Mobil 1 15w50 EP switch to Mobil's newest non-extended performance 15w50 formulation which is advertised as having higher levels of Zn and P."

So, since I had a new fill of this oil, I added the EOS.

hcoles · 06-12-2007, 09:30 AM

Wavey, your information sounds good for the filter.. probably correct. I think the Mann/OEM type filters use an "old" technology. I may or may not decide to switch.. I don't disagee with your info. on that.
Re. the M1 15w-50.. I'll check what exact model of this I have on the shelf and then check back in and see if I should add Zn/P. Thanks for all the conversation, it is all fine with me.
-Henry

Steve@Rennsport · 06-12-2007, 10:12 AM

Wavey:

I used to keep a large garbage bag here full of American oil filters that I took off cars that were in here. All of them were either split at the seam and/or ballooned out. Most did not have a good oil pressure relief valve compatible with the dry-sump oiling system operating pressures and most had poorly designed anti-drainback valves. The ones that had split cost the owner an engine as the oil departed the car without the driver knowing anything was amiss until it was too late.

For my part, I simply cannot afford to take a chance with customer engines so only use OEM Mahle or Mann ones. The Mobil 1 filters are fine for other applications.

Looking on Charle's website, it appears that the newest M1 15w-50 formulation(rated SL/SM) contains more ZDDP than the SM-rated version. Unless its a race engine with stiffer valve springs, I think this stuff should be OK for most applications.

hcoles · 06-13-2007, 07:10 PM

ok, I went out to the garage and got a bottle of the M1 15w-50 Extended Performance that I have, has the gold color cap. Has API SM/CF in the round "logo" - also says ACEA A3, B3/B4 and then again API SM/CF - I guess I have the "bad" version of 15w-50, I'll have to look closer next time for the SL/SM.... or take it back to Kragens and say "hey I want the SM and not the CF" ;-) and the guy thinks to himself, this is some crazy car nut, worried about nothing.. and he's probably right on at least one count..

Wavey · 06-14-2007, 04:54 AM

Yep, that's the new formula. If you can't swap it, just add the GM additive.

BTW, since I did that, I'm definitely getting less smoke on startup. I almost always let the engine idle for a minute or so before shutting off, to let the sump drain and the tank fill. That reduces start-up smoke to just a bit, but since adding the EOS, even that little bit is gone.

I get your point about the OEM filters for customer cars, Steve. I'd never use a Fram or anything similar, but I think the M1 is probably OK in the areas you describe, don't you?

Tom F2 · 06-14-2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve@Rennsport
Wavey:

I used to keep a large garbage bag here full of American oil filters that I took off cars that were in here. All of them were either split at the seam and/or ballooned out. Most did not have a good oil pressure relief valve compatible with the dry-sump oiling system operating pressures and most had poorly designed anti-drainback valves. The ones that had split cost the owner an engine as the oil departed the car without the driver knowing anything was amiss until it was too late.

For my part, I simply cannot afford to take a chance with customer engines so only use OEM Mahle or Mann ones. The Mobil 1 filters are fine for other applications.

Looking on Charle's website, it appears that the newest M1 15w-50 formulation(rated SL/SM) contains more ZDDP than the SM-rated version. Unless its a race engine with stiffer valve springs, I think this stuff should be OK for most applications.

Steve, what do you think of the "Made in USA" ones that the Porsche Cars North America supplies now? Thank you. Tom

Steve@Rennsport · 08:14 AM

Tom:

Those seem to OK as they are made to OEM specifications.

Wavey:

After seeing over a hundred failed domestic filters, I cannot bring myself to use them.

I have never seen a defective or failed German Purolator or Mahle filter in 33+ years (thats a thousand cars or more) and I will not take any risks with something as inexpensive as an oil filter, given the cost of a new engine.

Others may have different experiences so take all this in context,....

randywebb · 06-14-2007, 11:08 AM

NOte -- German Purolator not equal to US Purolator...