I am sorry, but I do not understand :confused: Could you elaborate a bit further :)

Functionally the end result is the same, but Dave at Dart Auto puts the new monoballs in for you, tack welds them in place and provides you with freshly plated factory parts. So you don't have to clean up your old parts or assemble the bearings and installation is a breeze. The bearings are made by Aurora - a very reputable bearing company.

I have also been considering the Elephant offset camber plates that come with the monoballs installed. I probably don't need the extra camber adjustment range right now, but it doesn't look like you can retrofit the new plates to the bolt-in bearing cartridges (I could be wrong) so it is something to think about.

A classic "slippery slope" example...

Pål - Without the rubber between the steering wheel and the road, every bump is going to be transmitted to your hands. You will fatigue quickly. If you want as much feel as you can possibly get, you don't want any absorption and you will be racing the car. If you want to run in an endurance race, then you will have some compromise such as Porsche used on their race cars. If you want a street car - as he does - then you will want to be further out on that spectrum - a bit more absorption by having some rubber in the suspension.

It would be nice if there were some magic material that could (actively, perhaps) filter out all the 'bad' 'bumps' and leave the 'good' ones. Despite some advances in rheological fluids for shocks (aka dampers), there is no such material or device. Ideally, you'd want to affect displacement and EVERY derivative off of that -- velocity, acceleration, and the next one, called jerk. Shocks/dampers can only affect one of those.

Thank you Randy. So for me who wants a 80% track 20% road car, I should not consider it as an upgrade then and stay with factory replacement?

80% track says monoballs to me...

But you'll just have to try it and see if the 20% road use involves:
1. sensitive girlfriend or wife
2. lots of potholes, etc.
3. you are getting old and don't want to be beat to death anymore
4. etc. etc.

Randy,
I had some concerns regarding the use of monoballs for the camber plate bushings as well. However I have read on multiple threads (like the one below) that due to the bushing being on the dampened side of the shock, it does not transmit that much road vibration through to the chassis.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/82540-upper-strut-mounts-whats-scoop.html

The good news is that this is a bushing that is relatively easy to change and it appears this can be done without affecting your alignment as long as you don't move the camber plate in the process.

The new Koni inserts came with new rubber camber plate bushings, so it is tempting to simply use these at first and then change over to the monoballs later.

Frank

All this discussion of camber plates & bushing made me realize that I did not post the removal of the plates or the bushings - especially the removal of the bushings as this was different that what I've seen posted elsewhere on this topic.

So, removal of the camber plate itself is obvious and straight-forward. Simply remove the three alignment bolts on top:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172120498.jpg

At this point the plate should drop right out. However, in my case the goop sealent around the opening of the plate had hardened preventing this. So I place a block of wood on top of the plate and gave it a couple light taps with a hammer and it popped right out.

Regarding the goopy stuff, I started a separate thread on what to do with this if you're interested...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/331154-whats-goop-around-camber-plates.html

I know this should be obvious, but if you ever wanted to know just how the top of the strut can be moved around for an alignment, the secret is under the large washers. Here the rear washer is removed:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172121161.jpg

So then it came time to remove the strut bushing from the camber plate itself. All the threads I have read so far indicated this bushing either needed to be cut or burned out. I'm wondering if the bushing is different for Koni's because mine looked like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172120981.jpg

It is just two rubber doughnuts with a steel sleeve insert that slides right out. And my new Koni's came with new doughnuts! I tried to see if the bushings were different for Koni vs. Boge on the PET CD, but there does not seem to be a part # for the bushings or the camber plate (No. 0 on diagram)?

I did notice something on the bottom of the camber plate that leads me to believe these bushings were in need of a replacement:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172121783.jpg

It appears the top strut cover was rubbing against the plate under cornering. Upon close inspection, I can see the paint is rubbed off the plate and there is some orange paint from the strut.

I have to travel this weekend so I don't think I'll get a chance to work on the fuel or brake lines as hoped. However today I did pick up some parts that were stripped. I'll take them to be zinc plated later this week.

cheers,
Frank

nice pics

it looks like the large rubber doughnut just drops right out of your camber plates (?)

My new inserts came with the new rubber for the top attachment - but I didn't put that in because it looked different enough to make me think it wasn't the same - but now I am thinking that it has just deformed over time. Also it seems like the hole in the camber plate is bigger than the diagram that came with the shocks which shows how to set it up - those diagrams are SO helpful. So unless we get told otherwise I will dig out my deformed rubber and do it right. A question: is there a trick to bending up that thin washer to lock in the 22 mm nut - I had to pound and dig with a thin screwdriver to bring up an edge which gouged my cupped washer. I used my original cupped washer since it was bigger/heavier/Porschelike.

I had no problems just bending it up with a screwdriver...

Randy,
Yes there are two rubber doughnuts per camber plate. One fits on top of the opening and the other on the bottom. I would take a picture of this but the plates are out being stripped right now. The metal sleeve holds them together, but it is a very loose fit. In fact, the bottom doughnut dropped out on its own when I removed the first strut which is why it is not in the camber plate picture above.

I'm not sure what you guys are referring to when you mention bending up the edge of the washer. I recall reading elsewhere that the washer under the nut at the top of the strut shock was bent up to prevent the nut from backing off, but my setup is not like that.

Here are the two washers that came with the Koni's (and they match the ones I removed):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172202878.jpg

They are part numbers:
901 341 629 00 "support washer" (cupped washer)
900 038 002 01 "tab washer"

The "tab washer" in my case was not bent up onto the nut, nor does it look like there would be much material beyond the edge of the nut to do this with. Is this something people are doing as a precautionary measure (for the same reason the factory puts cotter pins on the tie rod joints)?

However notice that the tab washer not only extends horizontally to engage in the shock bolt, but vertically as well. I'm wondering if this vertical portion somehow engages with the nut when torqued down to prevent it from backing off. Maybe some blue Loctite should be used when assembling?

The tab is on the LH side at the 5:00 position - looks like somebody already bent it up. It engages in the slot on the strut's threaded extension.

Of course, I dunno what happens with a _new_ car like a '77....

Ok - I misunderstood. The way that notmytarga described it, it sounded to me like the thin washer was being bent up on the *outside* of the nut, against one of the flats.

##The thin washer WAS/IS bent up on the OUTSIDE of the 22 mm nut## - my new inserts came with a similar replacement washer. It secures the nut to prevent turning, and does only cup it a little bit.
The inside tab engages the slot in the threaded strut - it's upward bend does not get caught in the nut's threads, but it needs to point up so it can fit flush with the support washer. The support washer pictured is more like the one that came with the Koni's than the one off of my car. I do plan to take a picture of some of the things I have been talking about.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172384631.jpg

Finally a picture:

Here we have the current shock rubber in place which is much flatter than the donuts. I imagine it is flattened by 32 years of being bolted down under the washer. Also in the picture on the paper towel are the old & new support washer and tab washer as well as the donuts I will install that came with my Koni insert.

Not mentioned in earlier posts by anyone is the thick spacer washer that was in position on top of the shock and under the camber plate when I bought the car - I was told that it compensates for the US ride height. I took it out when doing my brake rehab in 2002. I did note that the old shock bumper under the dust cover was very 'impacted' and therefore I chose to remove one third of the tootsie rolls height. I have been running Euro height for 2 years.

The shot also shows the scraping tool I described earlier and the bolt retainer from the steering shaft that I broke during disassembly

Ok - I know it's been a long time since I've updated this thread, but I started ordering the suspension parts I needed based on the feedback I received and after doing the disassembly work above. The parts started coming in slowly and then spring arrived in Texas.

Since my other passion is Triathlons, and my first (Triathlon) race of seven on the calendar for 2007 was in late May, my weekend free time was converted from 911 work to long ride, swim and run workouts. In the fall after the race season was over, I started taking inventory of where I left off on the 911 project, and slowly started working out my plan for finishing. Unfortunately, this project may turn into the ultimate "while you're in there" thread, as when I started looking at other parts of the car, I decided it would be easier to just get these other things done now then have to tear all this stuff apart later to get at it. The logic goes something like this:

1. As long as the suspension is out, it would be so easy to replace the brake and fuel lines which look suspect.
2. As long as I have to drain the fuel tank to replace the fuel lines, what better opportunity to remove the tank to refinish and seal (if necessary), and replace the foam seal.
3. As long as the tank is out, it makes sense to perform my battery relo to the smuggler's box since I can simply sit in my trunk instead of leaning over it.
4. And for the same reason as #3, it makes sense to convert my A/C ventilation plumbing to non-A/C plumbing so that I can get fresh air out of my dash vents (another project for which I've been accumulating parts for years).
5. Since I'm replacing the fuel lines, it seems like a good time to install the PMO Weber fuel bar & pressure regulator.
6. As long as the front suspension pan is off, I've always wanted to rebuild my pedal cluster.
7. As long as I have to raise the gearbox to access the fuel & brake lines at the rear of the tunnel, that would be a good time to install some Wevo mounts.
8. And to take advantage of the Wevo mounts, that Wevo 915 shifter & coupler is sure looking attractive.
9. With so much stuff out of the way, now is the perfect time to remove all the tar rustproofing that was applied to the car by the original owner some 30 years ago.
10. And, of course the real time killer, my motto is that everything I expose along the way will be thoroughly cleaned, and everything I take off will go back on either replaced, repainted or replated.

I'm not sure about #'s 6 & 8 at this point, but the fuel tank is already out and I plan to start work on the ventilation system this week. I was able to obtain all the OEM fuel and brake lines except for one brake line which I will have custom made (these took months to arrive).

Of course I have been taking plenty of pictures of these off-shoot projects along the way. I will start new threads for each sub-project and post links to them here for folks who are interested. Eventually, I will wind up back here to finish up the suspension work, but at this pace, it may not be for some time, and spring is only a few months away, and there is this Marathon in February...

cheers,
Frank

this sounds sooooooooooooooooo familiar to what I wound up doing to a guys 82' targa.

It just makes no sense to only do this or that while leaving other item "screaming" for attention but still function.

I am 99% done with the buying of parts, old re useable parts coming back from powder coater after they were re plated and those too tired replaced.

This is one of those things that you just dont know what you will wind up with till after you are in there.

Best of luck with your car hobby and it is great that you are doing the marathon stuff to keep you fit to crawl around under your tub when time permits.

Keep us informed and hang in there!
Bob

Hi Frank

I can definitely relate to the growth of your project. I am going through the same thing - with the added bonus that the engine is already out so what I really have is a tub on stands. What could be easier to work on? Suddenly ALL of the possible projects make sense.

The only thing working against the endless "while you're in there" is the knowledge that I've already missed an entire season of DE events and do not want to miss another. So at some point I will need to start putting things off for next winter and accept that there will be other engine drops, etc. in my future. Hopefully I will get far enough to have that option. :)

I realized that I share part of your philosophy (or disease) about only putting back clean or otherwise refreshed parts the other night when I went out to the garage with the intention of installing the Elephant sealed monoball cartridges in the rear trailing arms.

I got the old bushings out of the first arm, but accidentally made a clean spot getting the bore ready for the new bearing. 3 hours later I was scrubbing the last of the 30 years of crud that from the arm. Then another 10 minutes to install the bearing. The look of clean aluminum was too tempting. In hindsight, it would have been faster to press out the wheel bearing and soak or bead blast the whole arm. So it goes.

Anyway, best of luck and keep up the great write-ups. Reading your documentation of the stuff I haven't done yet is a great help, and knowing that you'll probably write about the stuff that I'm too lazy to take pictures of makes me feel a little better. ;)

Good luck
Scott