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-   -   Time to replace 30 year old suspension - little help please? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/324765-time-replace-30-year-old-suspension-little-help-please.html)

luyckxglen 06-25-2014 10:33 AM

i am loving this thread ! more pics :)

frankc 09-15-2014 08:44 PM

Sorry for the long break in posting. As mentioned in my previous post I was waiting on the Ball Joint pin wrench socket from our host that was back-ordered for several weeks. And then once that arrived and I started installing the struts, I realized that I did not have the correct pin spanner wrench for the Koni inserts, so I had to order and then wait for that tool. I did start work on the rear suspension and some other tasks while I was waiting.

Installing Ball Joints:
Having the control arm out of the car made installing the Ball Joint a little more convenient. As you can see in the photo, I clamped the torque wrench onto the joint so that I didn’t have to worry about it slipping off while I was torqueing the slotted nut to 184 ft-lbs:

Pin wrench socket on Ball Joint castle nut:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410841528.jpg

Torquing castle nut:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410841260.jpg

I then installed the tabbed washer (powder coated, of course) and bent down the tab(s) that aligned with the castle nut slots to prevent the nut from backing off. The final step was installation of the stainless steel cotter pin. Btw, in case you're wondering, the castle nuts were yellow zinc plated, and then clear powder coated to match the control arms :).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410842038.jpg

I wanted to post more, but running out of time tonight. Next I'll cover installation of the control arms with ER Sphericals

frankc 09-16-2014 08:04 PM

Installing Front Control Arms and Sway Bar:

I read about the difficulty of installing the later style front sway bar with the control arms mounted in the car, and since I was installing a fatter 22mm bar from an 86+ Carrera (original was 20mm), this would make it even more difficult. I’ve seen where folks assemble the control arms, sway bar and cross-member on the floor first, and then lift the whole assembly and bolt it in, but this method seemed a little awkward to me (I was doing this solo). Plus, I already had the aluminum crossmember with ER Spherical bearings in place from when I installed the steering rack and fuel pump, so I decided to try something slightly different that worked out well.

First I installed the right control arm by inserting the rear of the arm into the ER bearing in the crossmember, then sliding the front ER bearing on the control arm and bolting the front cap in place.

As a side note, when using the specified M10x35 bolt for all three bolts in the front cap, I realized that the length of bolt extending into the suspension pan was noticeably less for the two rear bolts than the for front bolt due to the thickness of the front bearing flange as shown in this photo:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410925103.jpg


Note that this is not due to the ER Spherical bearing being thicker than the OEM part (they are both 10mm). I called ER and asked Chuck about this. He stated as long as the length of threads engaged is >= to the width of the bolt, then this should be sufficient. This makes sense if you think about the height of a nut and thus the maximum length of threads it can engage. Nevertheless, I had some extra M10x40s lying around, so I decided to use those for the two rear fasteners.

After the right control arm was in place, I pushed the sway bar through the bushing of the right arm. Even with lithium grease, this required some force, and I felt having the control mounted in the car was very helpful. Then I slide the left control arm onto the other end of the sway bar, leaving me with the following:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410925253.jpg


Next I slid the rear of the left control arm into the bearing mounted in the aluminum crossmember. Given the tight fit of the Spherical bearings, I had to get the control arm lined up just right (while fighting the sway bar) in order for it to slide it into rear bearing. It wasn't too difficult, but something to be aware of. The final step was to slide the front Spherical bearing onto the left arm and bolting the front cap in place.

Btw, it was nice having the ER Spherical control arm mounts, and thus not having to worry about shimming and aligning the control arm front mount to achieve a co-linear installation.

I greased and inserted the hollow 22mm torsion bars, and when I went to install the foam seals (901-341-475-00) that go on before the adjuster caps, I realized that I forgot something. Remember these pictures from the beginning of my thread that show the gap between the crossmember and the control arm bushing, and the damage done to the torsion bar by water getting into that area:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410925492.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410925513.jpg


And here you can see the new white torsion bar (with red grease) in the gap:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410925945.jpg


I wanted to seal off the gap, so I remembered that I had purchased an extra pair of the foam seals for this purpose (yes, I will end up with seals on the front and rear sides of the crossmember this way). So I supported the crossmember in the middle, and then (one side at a time) removed the front and rear control arm fasteners, slid the control arm forward a few inches, slid out the torsion bar, placed a seal on the front side of the crossmember, slid the torsion bar back in, and then bolted the control arm back in place. The whole process took only a few minutes, and as you can see in the next photo, the gap is now sealed :). Btw, this also revealed an alternative way to install the control arms.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410926415.jpg


This brings me up to about mid-July. Next I’ll go over installation of the struts, with RennLine monoballs. I’m trying to catch up to where I am currently…

frankc 09-16-2014 08:08 PM

Btw, I forgot to mention how pleasant it is to work with clean car parts. I no longer have to wear gloves to work on the car, and my clothes don't even get dirty :).

Craig_D 09-16-2014 09:20 PM

Looking good Frank!! :)

frankc 09-19-2014 08:08 PM

Front Strut Installation
With the front control arms and ball joints installation complete, it was time to install the front struts. Note: I had postponed installing the front fenders until after the front suspension work was complete to allow easier access.

I had media blasted the camber plates then had them plated and powder coated long ago with many other parts, so those were ready to go. I decided to go with monoballs for the upper strut mounts, and went with RennLine because I liked how they integrated with the RennLine strut brace.

Here are the parts you receive with the RennLine front monoball kit:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1411184155.jpg


The monoball kit includes two tools (items on left in photo above) that aid in assembly. The top tool accepts a 3/8” drive used to torque the two halves of the unit together. The bottom tool is used to simply prevent the bottom half from spinning when torqueing the top half. Here they are installed:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1411184333.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1411184348.jpg


With the monoballs installation complete, it was time to install the new Koni inserts in the strut housings.

One topic I see discussed occasionally is the fluid in the strut housings. The Koni housings on my car were filled with a small amount of fluid when I disassembled them. The fluid is used to help cool the inserts by conducting heat from the inserts to the housings. I have read many posts about whether this fluid is needed or not on a street car, and also the type (e.g.; light oil, ATF, Coolant) and amount (50cc) of fluid to use. I kept the original fluid from the housings, which appeared to be some type of light oil. The original oil looked fine to me, so I simply put half in each housing - which turned out to be a little over 50cc each. When the insert is slid into the housing, the fluid is displaced and rises about 2/3rds up the side of the housing.

When purchasing the Koni inserts, one thing that I found odd was that the only model of externally adjustable Koni struts available for the early 911s (8641-1039S) are actually made to fit Boge housings. Koni does make a special gland nut (73.25.01.011.1) that can be used to install this insert into a Koni housing, which worked out perfectly for me.
The tool to tighten a Koni gland nut is a Pin Spanner wrench with 1.5” pin spacing, and 7/32” pin diameter. I purchased the tool below from McMaster-Carr (McMaster-Carr). Many folks use a pipe wrench for this purpose, but I did not want to gouge the gland nuts. The pin wrench is short, so I had to use a pipe over the end for leverage.

Gland nuts, vent spacers (installed between gland nut and bumper stop), and pin wrench:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1411185194.jpg


With the inserts installed, I thought the last step of simply mounting the struts on the ball joints would be easy, but I discovered that some powder coating got into the ball joint and wedge pin holes on the strut housing, so I had to remove that first given the tight fit of these components. All pictures I could find (including mine from disassembly) showed that the wedge pin is inserted from back, so I followed that orientation.

Ball joint wedge pin being installed in right strut:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1411185344.jpg

Spacer and bumper stop in place before the dust cap goes on:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1411186096.jpg


Next: Installing front wheel bearings and hubs…

sugarwood 01-27-2015 08:32 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1170006943.jpg

Are those factory welds?

frankc 01-27-2015 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarwood (Post 8458215)
Are those factory welds?

If you are referring to the spot welds, yes. I guess most of the time they are covered with dirt so you don't notice them :).

sugarwood 01-27-2015 09:54 AM

What is the story with those welds? Are they sloppy and random?

javadog 01-27-2015 10:00 AM

No, not at all. Those are spot welds and they are located where the adjoining inner panels are. Look inside your trunk and take note of all of the individual pieces of sheet metal that make up the tub of a 911.

JR

sugarwood 01-27-2015 10:15 AM

It's just that the pieces look like an irregular jigsaw puzzle. If this was on a Chinese car, they wouldn't hear the end of it, I think

javadog 01-27-2015 10:21 AM

That's why I said to take a look inside your trunk. The pieces that are attached to the inner fender are not simple shapes with all straight lines.

JR

Tremelune 01-27-2015 03:07 PM

Magnificent work. Are you usually sending parts and fasteners out for zinc coating or buying them from somewhere?

frankc 01-27-2015 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremelune (Post 8458909)
Magnificent work. Are you usually sending parts and fasteners out for zinc coating or buying them from somewhere?

Most of the parts that you see have been re-plated in yellow zinc. The larger and unique fasteners I also had replated. The smaller fasteners I purchased new - I found that Belmetric has a great selection of yellow zinc plated (and stainless) metric fasteners at reasonable prices.

I made about a half dozen trips to the plater during this re-build. Because I was sometimes dropping of about a hundred large and small parts in a batch, my method to keep an inventory of the parts that I dropped off, so that I could verify that all were returned, was to lay all the parts out out on the floor before taking them to the plater, and then photographing them. Then, after I pick them up, I print out the "before" photo and lay out the parts again, in the same position. It then becomes very obvious if something is missing.

Note: Do not attempt to re-plate the Weber accelerator pump caps or housings! They have what appears to be a yellow zinc type plating on them, but the parts are cast pot metal (zinc), and the acid bath used to remove any old zinc plating before the plating process will (obviously) dissolve these parts. I did not realize they were pot metal, but found out after I got them back :(. I started another thread on that topic.

Here are some examples:
Before:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422426618.jpg

After:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422426931.jpg

Before:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422427322.jpg

After:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422427476.jpg

Before:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422427067.jpg

After: (Oil cap is missing because plater suggested not to have it plated)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422427165.jpg

Tremelune 01-28-2015 06:51 AM

The results are drool-worthy. I hate rust. I very much want to do the same thing, but sending parts off for coating kills the weekend for me (and that's the only time I have to spend with the car). I could just add patience to my project, though...or take it apart more while I wait...I get nervous when it stops looking like a car and I'm stuck thinking "What have I done?"

Do you clean them before you send them? Mineral-oil parts cleaner? Tumbler? Wire wheel? All of the above?

frankc 01-28-2015 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremelune (Post 8459791)
Do you clean them before you send them? Mineral-oil parts cleaner? Tumbler? Wire wheel? All of the above?

Typically I have the parts media blasted with aluminum oxide, and then have a phosphate treatment applied to prevent flash rusting until I can get them to the plater, which is why most of the parts have a dark grey appearance in the photos.

One tip - the smoother the surface before plating, the shinier the plating will be. On the parts I wanted to be shiny, I used progressively finer grit sand paper, and then steel wool to get the metal surface very smooth before dropping them off for plating.

I am very overdue for posting an update to this thread to bring it up to where I am currently, but most of the free time I would normally use for this type of thing has been consumed with searching and researching parts for the '73. The good news is that I have acquired nearly all the "hard to find" parts for the '73 (except the engine!), so I should have time soon to post an update. Also, I have signed up for the Hill Country Rallye at the end of March, so this gives me a hard deadline to get the car on the road, and I work best under pressure :).

frankc 01-31-2015 09:23 PM

Time for a long overdue update. As I mentioned in my previous post, I’ve been very busy acquiring parts for the ’73. I did have a goal set of finishing the ’77 by the end of 2014, but I was unhappy with the paintwork done in the rear fender areas, so in December I started re-working that area which I will explain later, once I catch up to where I am currently.

Front wheel bearings and hubs installation

Despite multiple cleanings, dips in carb cleaner and a stainless wire brush wheel on a Dremel, I was not able to remove all the black brake dust that had etched into the aluminum hubs, so I decided to have them powder coated in the same silver as the other aluminum parts I had coated (front cross-member, trailing arms, ext oil thermostat). In preparation, I removed the wheel studs from the hubs by using a large steel lug nut I found at the auto parts store (I think from a Ford truck) on the end, and tapping them out.

While I was waiting for the hubs to return from the powder coat shop, one of my many)side jobs was to re-condition the wheel studs (really). After degreasing, the studs looked like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422771151.jpg

I asked the plater if he knew what the original black finish was on the studs, or how I might replicate it. He suggested a product called K-Phos from a local company, KG Industries, that can be used to protect items like this after cleaning and provide a similar appearance. I used a Dremel with a stainless wire brush wheel to clean the studs, and then let them soak in K-Phos overnight. I am pleased with the results:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422771354.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422771399.jpg

Upon receiving the hubs back from being powder coated, it was time to install the new wheel bearings. First I tapped out the old outer races – I used an appropriate sized socket to tap out the smaller outer race, and then a punch to tap out the larger inner race - just be careful not to gouge the wall of the aluminum hub (it looks like somebody was not so careful with one of mine in the past).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422771535.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422771559.jpg

frankc 01-31-2015 09:42 PM

Front wheel bearings and hubs installation (continued)

After the races were out, I pulled the studs back into the hubs using a wheel and a well lubricated lug nut.

The tool I used to install the new races was a bearing race driver. The one from Harbor Freight has the right diameter discs for the races (10 Piece Bearing Race and Seal Driver Set)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772185.jpg


I used a heat gun to heat the hub, then tapped in the races – obviously, just make sure you are square when starting. They went in without too much difficulty.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772253.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772279.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772312.jpg


With the races installed, next up was to pack the new bearings with grease (I went with Royal Purple). For this I used a Bearing Packer and a grease gun.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772355.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772378.jpg


Brake rotor installed and inside of hub packed with grease:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772568.jpg


Wheel bearings installed and hub installed on strut axle - finally! That hub came off for a "suspension refresh" in Jan of 2007.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1422772823.jpg

bandsmalter 02-01-2015 04:23 AM

All I can add is my results with the Elephant Racing Polybronze kit. I did the rear spring plates and the front control arms. The car is BETTER than new. Also did the monoball trailing arm bushings. I have no issues with the kit. I'd skip the tool unless you are going to do this job all the time. The instructions are clear. Super upgrade.

Sightlinereaders

Hcarraro 02-01-2015 06:17 AM

Lots of good stuff here. Thanks for sharing.

Henry


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