sc wont go help !!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi

i have an 81' sc. It just wont start. It has fuel getting to the cylinders,it has a spark, but it wont even make like ti is going to try to start. What do i do now? I am a nurse not a mechanic ! but please please help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gordon

can someone delete this for me I put it in the wrong place and It has been moved but i started the same thread in the right place so now there are two and I dont want to cause confusion. thank you. Gordon

Gordon,

How do you know fuel is getting to the cylinders? Have you checked simple things like the plug wires are all connected (14 locations if you include the short one to the coil)? Most of these issues are something rather simple. Please outline what steps you have taken or had a friend/mechanic take. Thanks!

sorry, it was off road for a while getting sprayed after some little B***ard scratched it, wouldnt start at paint shop.ran like a bag of spanners about a month ago, ran for a bout 2 seconds yesterday (like a big bag of spanners) now doesnt even sound like it will start, this all began about a year agoafter the cdi gave up the ghost. so I fitted an msd, whilst this was being done had ssi's fitted, hasnt really run properly since, now i keep getting jolts from the plug wires, tried a new set no difference, new rotor new cap, same but plugs out and connected, all firing with a bright white /blue spark, that much petrol going thru it was at one point leaking from the ssis but the plugs were also coming out petrol wet.! oops! Am stuck now.

Gordon

Oh am in Dorset uk.

yup tried that! the injectors are getting fuel and if i hand operate them by pushing the lever in the air box up they have a good pattern maybe not atomised enough now i come to thnk about it,is that a possible problem?

I'm a novice with these cars but seems to me if you have good spark, and you know you're getting fuel, it must be a timing issue.

I suppose it could be ignition timing, and/or injection timing.

I'm the first to admit I don't know much about these cars, so I'm just going with my expierence with other cars.

"Bag of spanners"... that doesn't sound good. Do you have pressure fed chain tentioners? Follow the oil line that runs from behind the distributor. Does it have a "T" that runs down to the chain cover?

Turn your engine until the Z1 mark on the lower pulley lines up with the mark at the bottom of the fan housing. Now look at your rotor. Does it point to the notch on your distributor? If not, turn crankshaft 360 degrees and check again.

thing is if it were ignition timing i should be able to make it run rough? if it is injection timing i dont know how to alter that but i thought the cis was contiuous with no way of altering it?

Cracked Distributor cap?

when it ran it was backfiring like mad, the z1 mark and the notch on the rotor will just about line up with the rotor pushed right toward the left hand bank of cylinders. otherwise when it is due to fire on no 4 it is in the opposite position.

tes the tensioners are the oil fed type

Can you clarify this?

yup, with the distributor slack you can move the timing backward and forward. if i push the rotor all the way anti clockwise until it cannot be moved any furthe the rotor arm points to the distributor notch when the z1 mark lines up with the notch on the fan housing,

Does that make sense cos I am confusing myself a bit! basically with the rotor line up with the notch and the z1 aligned i canonly alter the timing one way. I dont think the distributor has been out although I am beginning to suspeect !!

I'm thinking Lee is on the track here. I would verify that the timing is correct. Do not try and start her. I'm hoping smarter people will chime in shortly.

can i add that the car turns over fine with no banging or clattering in the mechanical sense. take the plugs out and there is no problem at al. you cannot hear any valve contating the piston etc and you can also feel the piston shovne air out of the head

Don't worry... I'm used to this sentiment.:D

I think I'd start by relocating the distributor so that you can adjust the timing in both directions. But I have to wonder how it got where it is in the first place. You might want to inspect the gear at the base of the distributor.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_static_timing/911_static_timing.htm

I cant time the thing until i can start it ! that sthe problem.!! even when it is turning over on the starter the strobe wont find a spark althought with the plugs out you can see that they all fire ! really weird.

how do I check that the cams havae not shifted or the cam chain has snapped? i s there an easy way to do this?

Gordon

Gordon:
You'll need a few books; the Bentley SC Repair Manual for sure will make you understand more.
You mention that the CDI failed, what do you have now?
If it was running very rough, there could be a vacuum leak like a cracked airbox. Do you have a pop-off valve?
The rough "Bag of spanner noise" is not good and may be due to a tensioner failing. To check, remove the small oil lines on the chain covers and the covers. It's a little tight and requires the removal of muffler and rear tin.
The dual-chains do not break but will make an awful noise when the tensioner fails and allows the chain to become slack.

So, set the engine to Z1, open the cap and see if the rotor points to the notch for #1 combustion. If it is exactly opposite, you are on #4. Just turn the engine CW one turn until you are on Z1 again. Now you are on #1 combustion and the rotor points to the notch.
If you need to correct slightly, do not try to turn the rotor. Instead, open the hold-down nut for the distributor and turn it to make the notch point to the rotor. This is approximate but should be good enough for the engine to start provided it doesn't have a bad vacuum leak, bad ignition parts, wrong fuel pressure.

Baring major mechanical damage, it's usual either fuel or ignition related.
Do you have the Bentley?
What ignition system do you have?
Pop-off valve leaking?
Cracked airbox?

Ok lets back up here for a min. It did run until it went in for some body work. Then it ran like crap after and now it won't run at all. You by some chance don't have Platinium plugs or worse yet those iriudiam plugs in this thing do you? I have found (with my SC) that the other plugs are too cold and will allow the cylinders to load up when starting and shutting the car off without a proper warm up. You also said your timing light won't strobe, is this while you have the plugs in the car and are trying to start it? If that is the case you don't have any spark, I don't care what color it is with an open plugwire. If it won't bring up a timing light it damn sure won't fire a plug, especially one that is gas fouled.
Check your base timing (Z1 and rotor position) replace your plugs with the proper Bosch, copper plugs, and try it again. You might want to turn the car over with the fuel pump disconnected first, this will clean out the extra gas in the cylinders. Good luck and don't worry you will get it running, sometimes you just need to take a break and come back later.

I have bosch wr3cc plugs in it. No i cannot get a timing light to strobe whilst I am turning the car over on the starter, i have seen all the plugs spark outside the engine, running from the cars distributor on their own leads. i have tried again today with no luck.

The bag of spanners noise was just me being overly horrible about the car. turing over without the plugs in the car is whisper quiet, with the plugs it makes a compression noise as any car would.

today I took the cam covers off the top (where the spark plugs go)of the engine all the rockers are moving freely and the oil is squirting out of the oil bar fine.

the ignition now runs off an msd 6a whiich according to the test prescribed by msd is working, I may go back to the cdi(thoughts??)

i have the Bentley book which incidentally claims that the rotor arm runs CLOCKwise which I know is wrong !

Gordon

any more thoughts on this because I am struggling now. Possibly the leads and plugs?
i really am at my wits end !:(

To me it sounds like the coil is weak. I am thinking this since the timing light won't light. Are you sure it works?
Cancel the fuel pump and try to start the car. Do thid for about 15 seconds, a couple of times. Don't crank on it longer than that, you don't want to burn up the starter. This will "clean out the cylinders" If it trys to start you are flooded.
Make sure to engage the clutch while doing this, no need to add the trans to the cranking duties.
And an SC rotor rotates counter clockwise

I know the sc rotates counter clockwise ! I have tried with an msd blaster coil and a standard bosch blue coil. Nada from each !!!

So down in the dumps with this ! :( :(

Gordon,

1. Those plugs sound way, way too cold for an SC engine! Have you pulled them lately to see if they are carbon-fouled? Six fouled plugs can make a coil look weak -- even when it is fine!

2. Have you checked the condition of the green coax signal cable from the distributor? If it has turned brown, or is cracked ... I would suggest replacing it!

3. Have you checked the socket for the CDI unit at terminals #31d and #7 for continuity and 600 Ohms [+/- 10% at room temperature] resistance with a good digital multimeter? There should be a low level 1.0 - 2.0 Volt AC waveform-Voltage signal there during cranking.

Here is more documentation on the 6-pin CDI unit and some troubleshooting precautions:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203100&highlight=cdi+do cumentation

have you checked the battery. possible the battery is weak and cant get enough cranking amps to the coil. that was my problem at first. new battery and it started right up.

the plugs are the Porschce reccomended part if you cant get BERU.
I am going to get this bloody car started one way or another !

Gordon

hi,

thabk you for the reply.

I have the Bentley book, which as i say actually said that the direction of the rotor is "clockwise" which I know is wrong!

I am running an MSD 6a

can a pop off valve leak? i didnt think of that.

as for the airbox i havent had it off to see if it is cracked.

Gordon

O.K. Let the MSD experts chime in.

I am heavily tempted to go back to the cdi to be honest !

Gordon

oh joy of joys. to put the tin hat on everything i think I have now ruined the battery. It only seems to be charging on 3 cells!!!!

maybe that's been the problem the whole time. Let's hope so since that's an easy fix.

I hope so, I really do !

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

started today !1 had to take the distributor out and reset it, fitted new plugs etc, went fine, timed to 5* at 950 and 25 at 4000 rpm. My only worry is that it is as smokey as can be when I first started it. Could it have too much oil in? would that give me problems with smoke ? thing is this smoke is coming from inside the he's! out of the heater system!

Sounds good.
Get the long 3mm Allen, read up on how to do it and set the mixture.
Check oil level with engine really hot and keep the level in the middle of the stick, no more!
Remove the airfilter and clean out the oil from the airbox.
Let it run for a while to burn off the excess oil.
If your heater boxes are really rusty, the headers/pipes from the exaust ports may be leaking into the HE?

ah the he's are brand spanking ssi's. i do think the car is overfull of oil though, at top of stick when hot, nice and clean though, interestingly the revs drop when I remove the oil cap, should that happen?

many thanks to all of you here who helped, the distributor setting info was brilliant. SmileWavy

just for good measure i went out this am in the very cold weather, turned the key and bingo off she went runnning like a good 'un:D

Glad to hear all is good!

smoking has now stopped, seemed as if she just needed to be ru for a while. Now to set about the calipers!!

Yes, RPM will drop about 50 when opening the oil cap, very normal.
If it doesn't drop, it means that there is a vacuum leak in the breather circuit (hose from the case to the filler stud), not good.

When changing oil and filter, fill with 10 liters first, run the engine hot, top up if necessary but not more than the middle of the marks on the stick!