Richard, will PM you with a different email & see if that works.
But it sounds like Tony had you covered :)

EFI is the way to go, but it sounds like your injectors are too big. Also, 46mm may be way too big as well for that 3.0. I know that 46 Webers are way too big for anything but a high-revving 3.0 race motor...

-Wayne

I am using 48mm throttles on my high compression big cammed 3.4......
so I think Wayne may also be on to something.

Cheers

I'm not sure how it's running now but I'd start eliminating things that might be screwing up the idle.

Why not temporarily set it to Alpha-N mode so any MAP fluctuations won't affect things. Turn off AE. At this point, you should be able to make meaningful changes to the AFR by adjusting the idle PW.

If it starts responding well and you get motivated to start developing the map be careful as the TPS may not offer enough resolution to do a good job. I don't have a lot of experience with this but a small change in throttle angle will make a big change in airflow.

In any case, I would abandon the MAP signal for the time being and see how far you can get. Maybe your vacuum manifold setup won't work as is. Do you have a small orifice to eliminate pulsations? In any case, MFI on the early cars is Alpha-N and works just fine (when in tune). Megasquirt with wideband feedback should work even better once dialed in.

Also, what is your ignition timing set at? You may have to play with it up and down to adjust your idle speed to have large enough pulse widths. For instance, if you have a lot of advance at idle you'll need small PW to compensate, and perhaps you're getting too small. Lowering the ignition advance will allow you to use larger, more stable PW. One injection per two revolutions will also help as has been mentioned...

Good luck!

I have been told by a few folks running 46MM TWM's on 2.7 +3.0 without issues so I'm not going to entertain these are too big. I am going to tune this weekend and will post the results. I have switched to Alpha in the past with decent results but that was with the 30 lb. injectors which we all think are too big. I've switched to 22 lb. and will go from there. I will play with required fuel,injections per cycle,turn off EGO etc. as has been suggested and I'm hoping for good results. Once again thanks to all that have taken the time to add to this posting.

I run 30lbs/hr injectors with my EFI kits for both 3.0L and 2.7L with no issues.

Just needs proper configuration.

Richard,
Took a real quick look at your msg file, only things I noticed are -
a) try set your injectors to 2 squirts, ALTERNATE
b) disable EGO

Good luck...

not that this really helps you but interesting.. I sat down with the person incharge of our new state of the art snap-on-transportation center(the college I teach at is partnering up with snap-on).. He is going to be integrating MSII into the "real world" class lessons. so we talked about options etc and they will be purchasing 5-10 units to start having students set up the systems and run them on the test cell engines which are Grand national engines and 6.0 chevy engines. so hopefully in the future there will be ASE certified techs out there to help some of us.. Just to note wyo-tech won't have anything on this new transportion center.. pretty cool..

anyhow I hope you get it figured out

I agree. I am running 55lb injectors in my 3.0L 930. I have a great idle. I do have other tuning issues though.:confused:

Dean

Just one question before I dive in this weekend, you guys are saying to disable EGO. Do I actually go in and "disable" in Megatune or just set the "authority" to zero? I'm under the impression if I disable the O2 the AFR gauge in Megatune won't work is that correct? I want to see the AFR as I'm tuning I just don't want any EGO enrichment correct?

There is no "disabled" for MS-1 so cannot be sure :(

Setting the authority to 0% will effectively disallow MS to change your fueling. So should achieve same results.

But, I'd start with disabled and see if you can still read AFR. MS does not need to know AFR to control fueling.

Set the authority to zero. Rick's wide-band controller doesn't have a display, so he needs the megatune display to show AFR.

Well today I replaced the O2 sensor before starting tuning. The 1 year old was jet black. The new O2 didn't seem to make too much difference in regards to the AFR as I'm ideling at about 11-1. Anyway I set required fuel to 14.5 with injectors set for alternating. I have EGO set to 0 and I am useing 2 squirts per cycle. I am useing a VE table that I generated during the summer and the car is running pretty good. My idle is fairly steady but when I "blip" the throttle I'm getting a bog/backfire condition. As I richen the VE around idle setting the blip is getting better. It's disappointing not to be able to count on the wideband O2 sensor readings. I am useing a PLX Devices O2 sensor and controller and I have it configured correctly per their instructions.I did a data log today and sent it to 3 of the gents on here that have been helping me for some more feedback. At what point in time do I turn on EGO correction? And how much authority should I give it? It is now raining fairly hard so I have ended tuning for today. At least I can drive the car now. Thanks to all for the ideas and suggestions. I may actually be ready to go to the dyno soon for tuning assistance.

Remember that you adjusted you accel enrichment so it wouldn't kick on during the tuning process. This is why you are going lean during quick throttle inputs.

Work on getting it running well with slow throttle inputs before you get into accel enrichment.

Today I did more tuning and it's really bothering me that my AFR readings in megatune don't seem to be accurate so I decided to dig further. I looked at the PLX Devices schematic to trace my wiring. Pretty simple there is a plug in harness from the O2 sensor and then a simple 4 wire harness for the controller. Red is 12 volt,black is ground and then there are two signal wires with white being wideband and grey being narrowband. I am useing the white and the grey I have tucked away under some shrink tubing. The sensor should be giving off a reading of 0-5 volts so I hooked up my analog tester to ground and the white wire and had my wife rev the enging from idle to about 2500 rpm's once the engine was warm. The gauge on the tester only moved from 10 volt about 1/2 a volt total !! I expected it should at least go to 12-13 volts. All my grounds for the ECU,relay board and O2 controller go to engine ground. Does this sound like a defective O2 controller? I just replaced the O2 sensor a week ago thinking this was the problem. If the controller is bad I've been chasing my tail for a year thinking it was other things including injector size. What do you guys think? I see a lot of guys talking about the Innovate O2 controller is that a good one? Can you get it with a seperate AFR gauge? Enjoy the super bowl.

Richard,
I took a look (via Megalogviewer) @ the log you sent, unfortunately, the AFR field seems to be 0 all the time. I'll take a look at the raw data later to confirm you were logging AFR/lamda. In any case, your MAP & TPS signals look wrong to me. TPS went to -13 - you should re-calibrate it if you haven't. And your MAP signal seems to be too edgy; maybe noise in the signal?

About your O2 meter - did you really mean it output 10V? Input to MS should be 0-5V...

BTW - I use the Innovate LM-1 and so far it works great for me.

We have a few PLX WBs at the shop. When compared to MoTec or FJO WB sensors they are spot on... (we have MoTec,FJO ,and PLX at the shop)

Id invest in the display for the PLX device. seems like you are using the megasquirt software to display the WB info

Also don't worry about throttle response yet or "blipping" the throttle... first tune your idle.. then tune1500rpm, then 200,then 2500,then 3000,then3500 etc... accel enrichment come later.

Once the "no load" sites are tuned.. get a co-pilot, and take it out on some lightly traveled roads, and tune some sites under load.

After awhile you will get a feel for what the maps should look like and be able to make changes to fix problem areas just by looking at the maps!!

Yes output is 10 volt. I installed a noise filter/capacitor in line that PLX provided. I don't know how I can tune this without accurate AFR readings. What steps can someone take to shield for noise? And what needs to be shielded? My TPS reading during recalibration seem to be wacky. At idle position the setting is high like 225 and with the pedal to the floor it's about 750? But each time I calibrate it's different what the f__k is up with that? I'm real close to throwing in the towel !!!

Well - sending a 10V input into the MS is a bad idea... I'm not sure if it will actually damage the processor.

A couple of thoughts -
a) If you can, find a direct way to read the PLX output (get a gauge if you have to as TimT suggested) & make sure it is doing the right thing independently,
b) As in most/all ECU installs, you need good grounding scheme - star-wired grounds are best and avoid ground loops.
c) I don't need to, but you can also try shielded cable for your TPS.
d) Maybe try re-download the firmware into your MS then re-download your config (msq) files too to be sure?

I'm not explaining this right so I'll try again. The PLX O2 sensor has a wire harness ( factory made ) that plugs into the sensor and the other end plugs into the wideband controller. Then there is a 2nd harness ( factory made ) that is terminated on one end that also plugs into the controller. That harness has 4 wires, one being 12 volt power,one being ground and then a grey narrowband output and a white wideband output. I am useing the white wire and my understanding is the controller takes signals from the O2 and sends via the white wire to the ECU a signal with varying strength of 0-5 volts. With 0 being 10-1 AFR and 5 volts being 20-1 AFR. When I measure that white wire with a analog meter I'm seeing 0 to 1/2 a volt swing from idle to 2500 rpm's. I expected to see 0 to maybe 4 volts. I think I'm going to call my mechanic and see if he has a portable O2 setup that has a probe that goes into the tailpipe, if he does I can use that to see if my setup is off as much as I think it might be. Also the noise filter which looks like a tiny capacitor is installed on the ground wire of the controller. That is where I was told to install it but I would think if it is needed wouldn't it be installed on the white signal wire? What are star wired grounds? And what is a ground loop? I have all my grounds going to the engine ground stud by the throttle linkage. In regards to shielding the TPS wires my TPS is mounted aprox. 1 foot away from the relay board where the TPS wires terminate, are you suggesting to slide braiding over those wires? Thanks