Bursch muffler?

Has anyone installed a Bursch muffler? I am considering replacing the stock OEM. Is the Bursch louder or quieter than stock? Are the old straps used to support muffler? Are they made well? 81'SC

[This message has been edited by lagoon (edited 10-30-2000).]

I posted this earlier. But I put on a Bursch and I can summarize it as follows, which is what I posted earlier.
Bursch throatiness kicks total ass, and you will not want your radio on for the 1st week so you can hear that sucker. Think it's fun driving by folk at 5k rpm now? Wait until you get that thing on. Don't ask about HP/Torque gains. They're minimal most likely. Worth the bucks though, I'd say.

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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

Agree with Kurt. Throaty - nice. Don't have a radio. Engine supplies all the music I need when I drive my 911. Can't compare in terms of looks with the SS mufflers but than I only spent $190 at GPR. Minimal performance gains.

I actually bought my 70E from the son of the guy who builds the Bursch exhausts, or did ten years ago at least.

I used one of their "triple glasspacks" for several years -- this is the model made for the early MFI cars. It definitely sounded very "aggressive" with GREAT burble and pops on decel. A bit of lumpiness in the midrange, which is a tough spot for MFI cars. The glasspacks blew out after a few years and it was incredibly loud, basically an open pipe, so I trashed it.

I've also seen and heard the Bursch "steelpack" on carb'd early cars and later CIS cars -- similar sound but not as wild as the glasspacks. Nice.

Another plus is radically reduced weight compared to the stock 'sausage' muffler.

The main problem with the Bursch is that their paint always seems to burn off rapidly. Not sure what the cure is for this, but to repaint it every couple years.

Just a couple of comments about preservation of Bursch mufflers ...`since the original paint is not a high temperature coating and is only there for rust protection before it gets to the customer!

If you buy one new, don't even bother to put it on the car with the original paint ... it won't last even a month in the 'bends' of the tubing! It will be much easier to remove the factory paint if you do it before it is heated ... use laquer thinner and wipe down with a 'pad' of several layers of paper towel soaked in Dupont 3661S, or equivalent! It will be messy, but worthwhile. When all of the paint has been removed ... you may want to use a chemical stripper, but neithe r method is easy or pleasant, you may even want to get it sandblasted!

The best coating for your Bursch is Spherex VHT High Temperature coating, and it is available in quart cans as well as spray cans ... I suggest a paint 'touchup gun' for ease and precision control of the pattern. I generally use a 1/2" to 3/4" wide pattern for exhaust parts, for minimum waste. Several light coats are (4-6) best for minimum dripping and runs. Despite very good durability of the VHT, annual maintenance is probably a good idea. Rust and grease MUST be removed before trying to do any touch-up work ... or you are wasting your time!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

LOL - I have used the Bar b que grill high temp, flat black spray paint (found at Home Depot etc.) on all of my cars. It never seems to go away, and really dressed up the exposed stuff poking out the back end. An auto detailer showed me this little trick and the results are very impressive. Not to mention the ease of the job...

I put a Bursch on my 83 cab. It was so loud that people who rode in the car with me would complain and ask if I needed a new muffler. I once had to put a friends 3 year old in the back seat for a short trip and the kid cried the whole way with his hands over his ears. I realize that sound is a personal preference, but for me it was loud to the point of being obnoxious.

I've gotta chime in here, I put a Bursch final muffler "tailpipe" (replaced the fender mounted oem muffler) on my 91 C2 after the boys at a tech session told me my car was to quiet. Well thats not the case any more! The Bursch is quite loud, in fact my wife won't even ride in it anymore (this is a bad thing?) Nice burbles, loud-ish idle, great at higher RPM, probably no hp gain, but it does weigh about 30lbs less. I've not seen it advertised lately, but as I recall it was $200. @#$^$% the radio, listen to the music of that 3.6

Bursch weighs 30 lbs. less than a stock muffler? Excuse my ignorance, but how much could a stock muffler possibly weigh?

Considering that a muffler is at the end of SSI's, is there any real horsepower difference between 2-in-2-out and 2-in-1-out among the various sport mufflers?

Does the stock pre-74 muffler come in a 2-in-1-out that would fit an SC with SSI's? Is it any louder than a stock SC muffler?

JAE,

I think you are correct about the Bursch being quite close in weight to the pre-75 banana muffler ... the weight loss is probably in comparison to a '76-'77 complete thermal reactor/catalyst/muffler combo!

Yes, the twin-outlet 'sport' mufflers have 10-12 hp gain over the single outlet OEM 'banana' muffler, at the expense of more noise!

Finally, the stock pre-75 OEM 'banana' muffler probably does produce a bit more noise than your SC, primarily because of the loss of the effect of the catalyst, and tuning effect of the SSI's. But, it is not objectionable in the least!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Thanks Warren,

I guess what I was hoping to hear is that I can put a OEM pre-75 single outlet bananna at the end of my SSI's, buy it from Midas and get the warranty, retain the stock look, increase the great sound- but not too much, not loose horsepower over the twin outlet sports, have my cake, and eat it too!

Comments please.

Joe
'80 SC Targa

Joe,
What you propose is just what I did on my SC. It's an 80 w/ SSIs and a Dansk OE-type 2-into-1 muffler. The sound is just about perfect to my ears; anything louder would probably be too much for me. The sound is fantastic, btw. It's a nice, low burble at idle and a very mellow "howl" at cruise.

Greg

Joe - I've put several different mufflers on my 3.0L w/SSIs. The pre-74 stock unit will work and does a nice job. It is quiet. I currently have a '73 muffler that I modified to a true dual configuration. You can make them as loud or quiet as you like once you get inside. The "sport" mufflers and 4" dual outlet shiny aftermarket units are very loud. The Bursch is somewhere in between. Ansa and Monza units sound good but rust really quick. The next system I'm going to make will use a turbo muffler with 2.5" dual inlet and outlet, can't wait to see how that sounds!

JAE and Warren -- with all due respect, the early Bursch (triple glasspack) I had was WAY lighter than stock. I don't know about 30 lbs lighter, but I could easily vouch for 10-15. I will try to weigh my stock 70 'sausage' this weekend. I have a 914 2.0 Bursch laying around that would be a valid comparison point (the 914 2.0 stock exhaust and Bursch mufflers are quite similar to the early 911 counterparts, like it or not ).



[This message has been edited by campbellcj (edited 10-31-2000).]

My stock 72 muffler is 24 pounds FWIW.

My OEM 'banana' weighs 20 lb. ... but it is not the '72-'73 muffler 911.111.025.00 that Stoddard shows for all '66-'73 911 applications ... it is the earlier 901.111.011.09 muffler that Andial lists for '69-'73 T-E-S cars. Does anyone know the difference/changes between these two OEM banana-style mufflers?

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 10-31-2000).]

Interesting, well one difference if you guys have 'calibrated' scales is 4 lbs! Could there have been some kind of baffling change perhaps coinciding with the displacement bump to 2.4L? Don't know why, but they must've changed something...

Speaking of mufflers --- what's the quietest one you can get? I like em quiet and I find the factory one rather loud (maybe mine's just fried?) so I can sneak by the opposition and be gone before they know I'm even there.

OK, OK, so my 91 fender muffler is only 14 lbs. heavier than the bursch tailpipe (I had to check the wall in the garage where I keep little bits of useless info like this) still 14 lbs is quite a lot. Probably will go to the "cup" style exhaust next, using a primary muffler by-pass to the original final muffler. Question? I don't seem to find aftermarket headers with cats, do most or all header arrangements not use cats? how do I pass emissions without one?

I just got my Bursch muffler and I plan on
following Warrens instructions on painting
before the install.My question is, can the
chrome exaust tip be painted? I would like
the tip black like the rest of the muffler.
If not paint,then what are my other choices?
Thanks!