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Jeff Alton's Avatar
 
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Forged 17/18 inch fuchs (replica)

Ok guys, I need to know if there is interest in a 17 or 18 inch fuchs wheel in either 1, 2 or 3 piece design that is FORGED?

I don't want to take away from Moses' great work on creating a cast replica, but I have set the wheels in motion to build a FORGED replica, with proper proportions. (not like those funny looking ones from england!) This wheel will be load/strength tested as well before it comes to market.

We can make it in one piece, two piece (looks like a one piece) or three piece (forged center with spun wheel shells).

If there is enough interest I can (could) even have this made out of Magnesium (in the future, way in the future)

We have the forgings and will begin profile work in the next few weeks for the one piece wheel. Target weight is between 16 and 17lbs and they will be specc'd to clear the largest brakes out there. (17x8.0 and 17x9.0)

The initial design will be for the 89 and older cars but we can easily create offsets for the later cars as well.

Price, well, no where near the $1000 quoted for the cast wheels. But, If demand is there I should be able to bring this to market for around under 2400 dollars.

I will front the development cost on this if there is interest. Either way there will be a set on my car!

What I really want to know is this.

1. 1, 2 or 3 piece wheel (makes sizing easier for a wider range)
2. Would YOU want a set if it all worked out?
3. What do you think the market is for this?
4. What is the market value on a set of wheels like this? (I need to know if I can recoupe my costs).

I am willing to make this happen, but need some gauge from the community as to whether or not I am wasting my time and $$$.

Cheers
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Old 01-26-2007, 06:29 PM
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Jeff,
Sounds very good! I think Market value has to be at least that of Lindsey's. For $2400, I think you could capture some / all of his market.

Sizing suggestion is tough. 17s seem like a decent compromise to get good tires, but not throw proportions with the car out of whack.
I like (very much) my 9.5" & 11" x 17" Lindseys.

Doug
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Old 01-26-2007, 07:16 PM
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Thanks Doug, sizing is where the difficulty is. We are going to make CAD drawings of the 18's as well. The three piece wheels are the easiest to size, but look like three piece wheels. So we want to make two or one peice wheels that look proper. We can order many different configuration of forgings to get the offest and width to suit anyone's needs, but if I commit to a large run (initially) I need to capture the widest audience to keep the price reasonable. Obviously, the more interest the less the cost.

If we do a center for a 3 piece wheels we can make it to fit any other 3 piece wheel that someone already owns (BBS, Kinesis, Fikse etc).

But I need intially to focus where the majority of interest is.

Cheers
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Old 01-26-2007, 07:53 PM
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Hi Jeff:

I'd be interested in a 1-piece, forged Fuchs that is as light as the originals (accounting for the size difference, of course) in 17" sizes.

To me, it really needs to be a "spitting image" of the factory wheels in 17" sizes for narrow & wide body, '69-'89 cars. Unsprung weight is VERY important to me since we are already using heavier tires in these large sizes.

Call me sometime for more details,...
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Old 01-26-2007, 07:57 PM
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I personally need a pair of 18x11's.

But the Lindsey brothers have been moving a lot of 2-piece Fuchs in the sizes you're talking about, and they have to use old centers. New forgings in the same price ballpark would be a big step forward.
Old 01-26-2007, 10:36 PM
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Ambitious project, but here's hoping.

To reach the widest market, you could make just one forged center for a 2-piece wheel. Design the center to accommodate the largest diameter tire (18"). For smaller diameter wheels, the center can be turned down to fit. On second thought, different center versions might be needed for the correct-looking proportion for the wheel diameter. A Fuchs center from a 16" wheel might look odd on an 18" wheel/tire setup.

With the desired barrel diameter (15-18") and width (7 in. to ? in.), adjusting the offset shouldn't be a factor. Locating period-correct looking barrels for 15" versions would be a plus. I'm partial to the look of the BBS-made barrels with the deep outer lip found on late model Bimmers.

Sherwood
Old 01-26-2007, 11:44 PM
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i would LOVE a set of 18x9 & 18x11 fuch-look wheels.

it wouldn't be overly 'cookie cutter', or if it was i could at least claim to be amounst the first.....

however for them to fit my application they would have to be custom offset.....dunno if thats a possibility or not....

and 2400 is in the correct ball bark....
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:49 PM
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Steve, I left you a message right before I posted this... You know I bounce most of my ideas off of you first... But I agree it needs to be bang on or else I will not pursue it any further. Like I said, I am not putting my money, time and name to get a product like those ones from England, not a chance! We have the machinery to make a dimensionally accurate wheel but it needs to be seen in the "real" to decide if it looks right. So I am going to have a prototype set made. It is one thing to have a computer say "this is what it will look like as a 17" and another to look at it and say "that looks right".

Jack, depending on how the wheel looks as an 18 I will do it, I just have never seen one in CAD yet to see how they look... It will be no more difficult for us to do either the 17 or 18.

Sherwood, a two piece, at least in this style of construction, does not have a "center" per se. The center and outer shell essentially make the one part and and inner barrel makes the other part. But a properly desinged (dimensionally accurate) center for a three piece wheel makes sense, and that is much easier for us to do.

Facey, with the forgings we buy, offset and brake clearance is not a problem. We can make these to fit the late 55ish mm offset or the earlier offsets no problem, just need to order the correct forgings to start with, which I have access to.

The key is getting a test set that has the right look, like I said I don't want a "it looks sort of like a fuchs" or " ya, it is close but not quite right" type of wheel. I won't do it if we can not get it right.

I also will not bring it to market without proper testing of load capability etc ahead of time.

Thanks for the feed back on this, It all helps.

At the earliest I would have prototypes by the summer and then assumming all else looks good it would be this time in 2008 when I could deliver wheels.

Cheers
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Old 01-27-2007, 12:07 AM
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"...a two piece, at least in this style of construction, does not have a "center" per se. The center and outer shell essentially make the one part and and inner barrel makes the other part. But a properly designed (dimensionally accurate) center for a three piece wheel makes sense, and that is much easier for us to do."

Jeff,
I hope we're referring to the same thing. The two-piece wheels Lindsey makes are Fuchs centers with trimmed OD, then fitted and welded to a 16" or 17" barrel. In this configuration, wheel diameter, offset and width are variable. With a 1-piece wheel, you couldn't/wouldn't want to manufacture all the variations wanted by potential customers.

Three-piece wheels are possible as well, but the thirty + fasteners needed to clamp the assembly might not look close enough to a factory Fuchs for some.

MHO,
Sherwood
Old 01-27-2007, 12:28 AM
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I'd be interested in forged RSR sized Fuchs replicas, possibly a set in SC size as well.
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Old 01-27-2007, 05:40 AM
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I assume these would be similar to the 3-piece Fuchs replicas that HRE used to make? I might be interested in a pair of 17x8s to replace my current 16x8s in the front...

Mike
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Old 01-27-2007, 06:46 AM
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1 piece is the key to me.. this would make my 7 and 9 fuchs worthless?? I would be interested in seeing them
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:23 AM
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Jeff- I've been wondering why someone doesn't do this.

If they looked like real fuchs, were forged and well manufactured (super strong, light and trackable), I would jump at $2.4K.

I'd only be interested in one-piece 17's, in SC sizes (7's & 8's?) as well as 9's & 11's in 930 offset.

- Skip
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:38 AM
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Sherwood. Slightly different constuction than Lindsey on two piece, no welding.

The three piece can easily be made so there are no visible fastener, Just like a Fikse.

With the wide variety (dimension wise) of forgings available I think I could offer a wide range of sizes and offsets in a single peice wheel as well! The machines do all the work and once the programs are in the machine it becomes a simple matter of hitting the right buttons.


Cheers
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:38 AM
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Great to see what could happen!! Jeff looking forward to see the real thing Chuck
Old 01-27-2007, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by IROC
I assume these would be similar to the 3-piece Fuchs replicas that HRE used to make? I might be interested in a pair of 17x8s to replace my current 16x8s in the front...

Mike
Yes, if we make a three piece it would be similar in design to the old HRE's, similar.

But I think originally I am going to put my time into the one piece wheel to see how accurate we can get. If this can't be done then the three piece wheels centers are next. They would be much easier and quicker to do as well.

Cheers
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:42 AM
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I would be interested.
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:21 AM
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Count me in for some 17's. I would be happy with either a one piece or a three piece. While visual accuracy is critical, strength and integrity are paramount.


Thanks Cat,


JA
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:15 AM
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I'd certainly be interested in 18's in custom offsets. I'm with JA on priorities.

Funny how a few years back when I put 18's on my car, I got such ridicule. I know 18's are ideal proportions, but Porsche is about function, right.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:56 AM
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I'd be interested in one piece 17 inch replicas, 7 and 9 inch sizes
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:33 AM
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