Alternative Fuel Injectors

[dfink]

Go to the Stan Weiss site and compare.

[ianc]

Interesting. They do look very close. The 0280-150-826 on Ebay has flow specs listed on Stan's site, but not the pressure at which they were taken, which is a little iffy to me. Suppose Chrysler's FI operates at a higher or lower press?

What is the feeling on the difference in flow rate? My gut feeling is that if the flow rate is off by very much at all, you will get either a lean or rich condition, since the ECU will be varying the pulse time according to its maps, but will have no knowledge of the actual flow rate of the injectors.

Then there is the physical dimension thing: how about the injector's length and the diameter of the nozzle which fits into the intake? Did I read earlier that these are standard?

ianc

[Jascha]

Now that Troy is all sorted out -give these Folks a try (let us know if the posted price still holds)

http://germancarsandparts.com/index.html

Fuel Injector
Part #: 0280150158
Price: $84.95

Note that this Bosch number also fits 944 (2/1985-88). 911 (1984-89). 924S (1987-88).

[dfink]

Originally posted by ianc
Interesting. They do look very close. The 0280-150-826 on Ebay has flow specs listed on Stan's site, but not the pressure at which they were taken, which is a little iffy to me. Suppose Chrysler's FI operates at a higher or lower press?

What is the feeling on the difference in flow rate? My gut feeling is that if the flow rate is off by very much at all, you will get either a lean or rich condition, since the ECU will be varying the pulse time according to its maps, but will have no knowledge of the actual flow rate of the injectors.

Then there is the physical dimension thing: how about the injector's length and the diameter of the nozzle which fits into the intake? Did I read earlier that these are standard?

ianc

Hence the reason when in doubt buy the correct ones. You could also try these and put the savings into a SW custom chip that could correct and A/F issues. I bought the original bosch so I am no example. At the time however I had not located the chrysler injector. The 150-826 may work fine it may not work for more than 5 minutes. I am pretty certain the 150-158 will work for many years.

[cashflyer]

Lot's of people buy reconditioned injectors and are happy enough.

However, my uncle works for Bosch. He has worked his way up from working the FI assembly line, working the QC (including production testing), and now works as a liaison to auto manufacturers. I mention this just to establish his background of knowledge. And here is summary of his advice to me. Don't do it.

As mentioned in this thread, "reconditioning" simply means that the injector has been cleaned and flow tested.

It's still a used injector with an unknown number of cycles on the solenoid. The body is a sealed unit. The solenoid cannot be replaced, and more importantly the internal "valve core " cannot be replaced.

How long will your bargain perform before the needle, seat, or return springs give out?

[TroyGT]

You are correct... however... my injectors were already 20 years old, so I was in that boat already where they could fail at any time. My choices were to buy a single new injector to replace the one that had failed for me... $160-ish and leave my others in place where any one of them could fail any time. Or, buy a fresh new set at $165 a pop.. Or buy a cleaned, usedm flow matched set for $240. At $40 a plug... I'll do this for the life of the car and come out smelling like a rose. My bet is that the injectors I purchased will have at least another 10 years in them. If not... I can affort to buy 6 more and plug and play as problems arise.

-Troy

[ianc]

Well, I took a good look and had a good hard think about those Chrysler injectors that dfink posted a link to on Ebay. How tempting!

But, after some further study, I'm convinced they won't work from a physical fitment point of view. If you look at the 158 Carrera injector:



The groove for the attachment clip is considerably higher up on the inlet side than on the Chrysler injector:



Other than that they appear very similar, but I think that one factor would prevent the bracket on the intake from holding the injector at the proper height to get a good seal in the intake.

Another route might be some of the VW injectors, as Stan's web page shows them to be very similar as well. Not sure of prices there though; they might be just as much as the 158... Fiddle. This is becoming rather vexing...

ianc

Edited to say: I heard back from Holley this AM, and they say that the Holley part # dfink found (68-49), has been discontinued...

[TroyGT]

Thought I'd bump this again for a progress report to anyone interested. The six 150-201 injectors that I purchased from FiveO have been in my car for over 7 months now. I commute 80 miles a day 5 days a week and haven't had a single hiccup. I have since put a Steve Wong chip in and a Fabspeed Euro pre muff... the car runs great. I can honestly say that I can recommend with confidence the Bosche 150-201 injectors as a direct drop-in aftermarket replacement for the 3.2. I paid $259 from FiveOMotorsports for a FULL set. Flawless.

-Troy

[dfink]

Originally posted by TroyGT
I paid $259 from FiveOMotorsports for a FULL set. Flawless.

-Troy

If if remember correctly though they were cleaned and tested units not new. Still maybe OK but not new. 150-201 injectors new are just as expensive as the 150-158. But I am glad to hear that you are not having any problems. The tested injectors appear to be a viable alternative to spending $100.00 ea on new.

[PorscheSki89]

I just ordered a set of BRAND NEW injectors for my 89 3.2 from Fiveo... for $259

Quote directly from the webpage...

984-89 Porsche 911
Carrera & Speedster
Bosch 0280150159
Brand New Sets
$259.50/Set 6

Link...

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsPORSCHEVW.asp

Did I miss some fine print?

[dfink]

Originally posted by PorscheSki89
I just ordered a set of BRAND NEW injectors for my 89 3.2 from Fiveo... for $259

Quote directly from the webpage...

984-89 Porsche 911
Carrera & Speedster
Bosch 0280150159
Brand New Sets
$259.50/Set 6

Link...

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsPORSCHEVW.asp

Did I miss some fine print?

Looks like they may work. I can't find any operating pressure data but probably close to the others. They a bit higher flow rate but not alot. Hope they work for you. They are basically for a 2.3 liter ford engine. Let us know.

[scarceller]

Originally posted by TimT
BTW Im drawing a blank now whether Motronic needs a high or low impedance injector.. Take a multimeter, and measure the resistance ot the injector and proceed accordingly.

3.2L Motronic Injectors are Low Impedance

[dfink]

The 0280-150-159 appears to be a low impedence injector. Fuel ratios may be off a bit as it is a higher flow rate injector. It makes me wonder though why they are so much cheaper. May just be the porsche tax at work but still makes we wonder what the differences really are.
Very hard to find good specs on Bosch injectors. From what I understand even the ones posted on the internet are just compiled from different sources that have tested the injectors. Bosch it appears does not release the specs.
Dyno tests and O2 readings on the injectors would be interesting.

[ianc]

PorscheSki89,

Sounds like a great deal. Did you speak with them on the phone? Any info? Please let us know how they work...

ianc

[luvndasun]

Originally posted by dfink
. Fuel ratios may be off a bit as it is a higher flow rate injector.

Do you have the fuel ratio and flow rate numbers for comparison?

[ianc]

Per the Stan Weiss site, the 159 is 24.35 lbs\hr, and the 158 is 21.8. No pressure at which this measurement was taken was listed for the 159 however. The 158's press is listed at 36.25 psi.

ianc

[scarceller]

Here's something that may be helpful, it's the largest list of injectors I've ever found:
http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/maxboost/docs/Bosch_Injector_Applications.pdf

Then take a look at part num 'E4EX-9F593-AA' sure looks like that injector may be a match for the 3.2L.

[scarceller]

Here's another good list:
http://www.turboford.net/faq/injectors.shtml

See part # 'E4EX-9F593-BA'

[scarceller]

As mentioned earlier the 0280-150-159 bosch injector does seem like the correct one for our 3.2L Carreras.

First it is listed at FiveO as the one they sell for our cars see here:
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsPORSCHEVW.asp

Also you will find specs for this injector and hundreds of others here:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH

The site with all the specs shows the bosch 0280-150-159 injector as low impedance and 24#.

Here's the rub: they most likely where flowed at 3 bar (most are rated at 3bar) but our cars run 2.0 to 2.5 bar presure not 3.0 and calculations I ran for a 3.2L pushing 230HP with 2.5bar presure show estimated flow of 240cc/min about 23# if you adjust this to figure out what kind of flow rate that equates to at 3bar you get about 25# injector (265cc/min) So maybe this injector is a tad on the light side but our Motronic system will compensate and just drive it a little harder. The orginal number I calculated was at 80% duty cycle so I figure the 24# injector has enough head room.
My bet is it will work just fine.

You can get the calculators here:
Fuel presure adjustment calculator
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcpchg.htm
3.0bar is 43.5lbs and 2.5bar is 36lbs

Injector size calculator is here:
http://www.injector.com/injectorselection.php
This calculator shows a 6cyl 230HP at 3bar needing just under 24# injector at 80% duty cycle. Our cars run about 2.5bar not 3bar so a 24lb injector may be a tad light.

dfink posted that he bought these, let us know how they work. Good luck.

Also FiveO sells them for our cars, I'm sure if they did not work they most likely would have heard from customers that bought them.

Hope this is helpful.

[dfink]

Originally posted by scarceller
dfink posted that he bought these, let us know how they work. Good luck.

Not me I bought original 150-158 injectors from the porsche dealer.

The motronic system will only adjust in the range where the O2 sensor is functioning. Otherwise it is a straight fuel map to the position of the MAF sensor. With a bigger injector it should be rich at WOT as the pulse will be same just more fuel passing through.