How good of a daily driver are the early cars?

I have a question for you guys...

I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to go for an early 911 for 8-12k rather than a 944 turbo... By early I mean 67 to 75 or so. What do these cars go for?

I'm ofcourse lead to believe the 944 turbo would be the better choice, since it'd be a lot more modern, and likely more reliable, or is it? Has anybody owned both? Just how reliable are these early cars?

Please be objective in your posts, though I like the 911, I don't want to pay too much for the uniqueness (the coolness really).

The car would be auto-xed often, but I wanted to do track events for a while now, so that's likely too... It would almost definately be a daily driver.
Thank you,
Ahmet

I can only speak for the 911, but I had a 1972 911"E" targa as my daily driver for 6 years and I never had a day of trouble. The targa, however, was a bit of a pain because as the weather changed I found different leaks (both air and water). Still and all, it was terribly reliable, but I like the coupes better.

I have had 8 early cars and each one brought a different type of pleasure to me (all kidding aside). They were all very reliable, used extensively and easy to maintain. They were used the way they were supposed to be and they seemed to enjoy it.

I don't have enough experience with the 944 to say anything other than they are wonderful cars that too many of my friends swear by, not at. They clearly have more storage space and more back seat area for passengers. I have always wanted a 944 TurboS, but I have never moved from the 911 family.

Prices on these cars vary based on year, type, options, etc. Once you narrow down your choices it will be easier and more accurate to give price ranges. Drive as many early cars and 944's as you can and make sure you have whatever you are seriously interested in checked out by a qualified Porsche mechanic familiar with the structural aspects of the car. The key to having a reliable Porsche is going to depend on previous care and rust infestation. In Porsches, a little of anything usually means more than a little. A little rust is usually an indication of more hidden rust. A small maintenance bill is relative and it is never that small. The upshot with the early cars, is that they are fairly easy to work on and the parts are redily available.

Happy hunting and as you can see... I'm hooked!!!!!

Best Regards... Happy Holiday,

Marc Weintraub

[This message has been edited by marc weintraub (edited 11-20-2000).]

Hey - I remember you from the 944 forum

I had the 951 with the MASS kit, 3" exhaust, adjustable boost control, SPLIT SECOND computer(s), chips, LSD etc..

Traded it for a 76 911 then I sold the 911 three weeks later for 2X the 951's value. I then bought my current '77S (perfect)

Having owned both, let me tell you my observations from a historic and SCCA racers point of view:

The 951 handles very well and has great, easily upgraded power. Brakes are awesome as well. The car is very capable and does well in autoX's but tends to suffer above say 50 MPH compared to a 911. It is modern, but no more reliable than a *GOOD* 911. As a matter of fact, it has numerous failure prone systems (KLR, DME, timing belt, cooling system) that are not found in the 911.

The 911 is a drivers car like few others. It talks to you, answers your inputs with enthusiasm, and delivers more performance than you have guts for ( at least for the first few months of ownership ) It is a very advanced car, despite its simplicity. The "handicaps" (read: rear weight bias) are turned to virtue by a skilled driver such as yourself, given time, training and practice.

Point is this: the 951 may be faster on paper in SOME areas (far from all, however) but the grin factor of the 911 surpasses anything I have ever experienced. At the end of the day, that is all that really matters to a driver - the romantic connection between car & driver & track.

I love the early cars (and just dumped a huge pile of time and money into my 70) but for daily driver I'd lean towards an SC. The early carb'd and MFI cars are "fussier" when cold; most (but not all) lack A/C, power windows and other creature comforts that are kinda anti-sportscar-like but nice to have in a daily driver; and finally they are just plain "old". Although all 911's when taken care of are quite reliable, the older car will undoubtedly need a bit more TLC than a newer car all other things being equal. Weird little parts just break after 30 some odd years!

The 3.0's torque curve is also much more commute-friendly than the early E and S. If you do end up going the early 911 route, you may want to think about a T for its low end grunt.

I have no firsthand experience with the 944/951 series so can't really comment there.

Good luck in the hunt!

Chris C.

My 2c = my experience - cars built before 1976 WILL rust (just not much if in a dry enough climate). I have no idea what the climate is like in NC. Also, as I am pretty sure you are aware, 1974-1977 cars may have problems specific to the 2.7l engine.

As an aside. If my car is May 1975, it must be about the absolute last of the pre fully galvanised 911s. Bummer.

I understand you will be able to do some of the repairs yourself, and the general opinion around here is that 911s are pretty owner repairable - it is just time consuming. I can't speak for 944s.

Cam

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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S

Well, I'm in no rush to decide, or buy this car, as I don't currently have a driver's license, and won't for about 10 more months...

Thank you (all) for the recommendations, though I have to ask:

So a 1976 or later car looks like the best answer, because of galvanization right? But can I find one in good shape (has to be somewhat reliable, daily driver mind you) for around $12k, if not less?
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

Ahmet, living in Virginia, yes, you need galvanization Get a '79 or so. Sell me your 944, too. No, wait, I've seen pics of you abusing that thing.

Um, I drive my '86 daily. 400 miles a week. I love the car but I'd certainly rather be putting miles like that on something else. But..I love my car. It does not bother me to drive it daily other than the extra wear and tear. I've actually been considering a 944 for a daily driver. But would that be much better?


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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2

Yeah, I drive mine pretty hard, I just posted some pics in the "you and your ride" post...

My 944 has been very well taken care of, and in the last (almost) 3 years I've owned it, it hasn't really given me any problems, save for the transaxle... I've put somewhere around 60k on it, it's still got 173hp at the wheels, with some mods here and there. It's also gotten me many trophies in auto-xes.

I've driven a couple of early 911s, and really do like the feel of them, but I'm also addicted to the 944 line. It's not that hard to push 350+hp from a turbo for little $$$, +they're more modern. I might end up with a 911, and a 944 turbo some day, but for the near future (next couple of years) I have to make a choice.

As I said, the 44 has been superb for me, I just want something a little "better". I'm still undecided, 911s are fun coming out of a turn at full power, but it's so rewarding to play with a well balanced car at the limit too. + The early cars are tricky under braking, and I don't know how well of a daily driver that would make one (for me).

I'm used to working on the 44s too, not so with the 911.

But in any case, I'm definately still considering (must be for the 1000th time). Time will show what I buy...

Here are some pics of the (abused?) 44. It IS for sale, but I might keep it cause they're not really worth that much, and I still enjoy driving it!

Enjoy





Happy motoring...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

I owned a 1985.5 944 for 12 years before I accumulated 345,000 miles (no engine or transmission rebuilding or removal). I became very skilled at working on it but through it all always wanted another 911. I started with a 1974 911 and 1 1979 911SC before that. Unfortunately, the 944's value drops like a lead ballon and you loose; however, with the 911, no matter what model you will always make your money back. A mechanic once told me that, "the 911 is the cheapest car you can own". It holds its value!! As for working on them? Its nice to get away from water pumps, timing and balance shaft belts, cooling fans on the fritz and the ususal host of other 944 problems. I sold the car for $1600 to my mechanic. Look at an older 911 like a 73 "T", "E" or "S" and if properly taken care of they sell way past what they originally sold for. They are easier to work on, more dependable, a whole different species to drive as feel and handling goes and overall a better car. Do not be shy.......jump in!!

BR
"73T

In regards to your comments on purchasing an older 911, I suggest that you really do your homework in researching a "good" unit. I am an owner of both the 944 and 911 ( not to mention a '74 914 & a '86 928S ) and would advise that my experiences dictate that the 944 is a much more drivable on a daily basis for the simple fact that it is much more comfortable. My 44 has seen quite a bit of track time and auto-x and is a hoot to drive. Repair bills can be price intensive but that is the ways of this beast.
On the other hand, my '72 911E is also a terrific car to play in but I would not recommend it as a daily. The ride quality is not practical for those of us that have become 'soft' over the years. I have also found that the braking, shifting, and weight transfer is much greater in the 944. We have to remember that old cars drive like old cars. The newer cars have much better reliability and technology is what it really boils down to. Good luck in your search and happy and safe motoring!
-Pierre

'72 911E
'74 914-4
'84 944
'86 928S

The last post is an interesting one and I have to admit, as I did in earlier posts, that I have never owned a 944. I have owned numerous 911's however. My list is rather extensive (73RS, 74RSR, 67"S", 71"S", 72"S", 72"E", 73"S", 1998 TurboS) and I will only say that the more technology is in a car, the more likely you will not be able to work on it.

Yes, the creature comforts are great... if you have gotten soft around the edges, middle, where ever..., but any early car can be made into a reliable ride with consistant, not constant, maintenance.

I highly recommend an "E" as a daily driver, but as stated earlier, it has to be a well checked out car that has been well maintained. I would go over any early car with a fine tooth comb and negotiate as required.

I do agree, however, that the 944 is a roomier, well balanced automobile with the ability to hold more than two people. I would think long and hard about my priorities if this is going to be the only car in your stable. You won't be car pooling in it and you certainly won't be picking up too many things from Home Depot or the supermarket.

You can get a great 944 for the same money as a poor 911. If you are looking for a daily driver on a certain budget the 44 is the way to go. But then there is the fun factor. The 911 will make your heart beat. I like em both, but I couldnt be without the 911.

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Robert Stoll
83 SC
83 944

Campbell is more or less correct.

Do it right and take an early body (long wheelbase... say 70 to 72) and put a CIS or DME motor in it and enjoy the best of both worlds!

Only real problem with the early cars, other than the motors, is that they are not zinc coated steel and thus rust more often. If you live in an area where they use salt on the roads in winter, then I would look for a post 77 car...

Joea

Well, I've been driving that 944 around with 350lbs springs and 17 inch rims for a while, and it didn't seem uncomfortable to me at all...

The main concerns are dependability, and fun... Maintenance is no problem at all however.

Anyway, I'm certain I will be time trialing the car as soon as I get it, and I will keep auto-xing with it as well... For the money, the 944 seems to be a better choice. I know about them, they're highly tunable, and though not as sharp as a 911's, it's definately got a soul, it's rewarding, and fun to drive.

I've driven a few 911s moderately hard, and specially the early cars (besides being in my price range) seem to be a little more hardcore, and a little more of a challange to drive fast. It's something I'd like to do again, and more often.

However when it comes down to it, I really like the feel of the 44s as well, and I certainly know enough to take care of one.

I will drive a few more 911s (except for die hard 944 fans, and a few honest owners who's owned/driven both hard, people tell me there's nothing like a 911). Many established racers say for much less money, a 944 turbo can be fun, reliable, and as fast as a 911 around a road course. Though money IS the limiting factor, I'd like to get the better car. And someday I just might own another model of Porsche, but for now it seems like I'm leaning for the 944 yet one more time. (I'm going to try to have two, one for daily driving, and a road racing car, ITS maybe? They certainly do quite good).

It's been hard to get objective information about these two particular Porsche models, and I thank you all for the honest recommendations.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...