Tail or no tail that is the question......
 

Ever since I put the tail on my car it seems to have more body roll in the corners and the front end feels lighter.
Should you have to adjust the suspension after installing a tail?
I thought puting on the tail would be an instant improvement. Now I find myself second-guessing wether I should have put this thing on........What do you think?
Before:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171321830.jpg

After:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171321870.jpg

OK matt, let's see the front! If you have no front spoiler, you'll have an imbalance in your setup!

The general consensus is that if you add a tail you must also add a front spoiler, for aerodynamic reasons that I cant clearly explain.

Front spoiler without tail is OK
Tail without front spoiler is not

It looks good on your car by the way.

X2, you can run a front without the rear but not the other way. Add a chin spoiler and you will be happy

The air that gets under the front of the car at all times is being accentuated from the rear squat. The spoiler that you need is the rubber chin spoiler. You don't have to do a glass air dam, just the front rubber spoiler.

Steve

Here is the front........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171323796.jpg
Don't know if you can see in the pic but I already had the front chin spoiler. I wonder if it would help to be a little lower? There is a good 5" of clearance at the chin.

good looking tail.

I'll second lowering the front. . ..and maybe a tad in the rear too.

If you go much lower, you'll need to be careful with parking, or you'll end up with a tattered and bloody chin.

The standard US curb stop height is 4.5 inches.

. .and then there are a whole lot of non-standard (higher) curbs.

The simple solution is don't pull so far fwd. --it's not a 4-door pick-up truck.

there's a lot of higher curbs, but those concrete wheel stop thingys that you see in parking lots are all supposed to be at 4.5 inches, and most are.

I've had cars with fronts at all heights, including my current 911 which is very low up front. It's amazing how better a rubber spoiler will survive over the years at 5 inches than 4.

I'm not disagreeing that a rubber spoiler will survive better over the years at 5 inches than 4.

What I'm saying is, our cars don't need to be pulled all the way fwd, in most spots. And, lowering the nose will help his handling issues.

i'll add, pulling fwd, as close as possible, is a tough habit to break. --and those rubber lips can take a few hits and still survive. ;)

I'm not worried about curbs.........just corners. Anyone put a tail on a stock suspension Carrera and noticed a difference with added body-roll?
BTW: Thanks for the positive comments from everyone on the tail.

I like the look of that- clean and sharp!! What type of tail is it and about how much are they?

Not to hijack but that tail; though nice, isn't a correct tail for your car. I am pretty sure that is a C3 tail. Can anyone confirm?

That (minus the second grill) was one of three tails available for the SC. (the best looking imo) - it may have been available in 84.

I say tail on !! IMO I have one and at high speeds I think it helps. my 0.02 cents

That tail was not available in '84, but who cares? It looks good, so go with it. :)

Your car does need to be lowered IMHO.

HERE is a good thread outlining available tails for that period.

I bought one a while back for ~$400.

Crap, that was 5+ years ago, and still not installed or painted. --It's red w/ a very good condition rubber lip. ...slightly dusty.:o -4sale

FWIW, my 82 SC RoW came out of the factory w/the "tea tray" tail that was fitted to the 930 (room for the intercooler). Not as "sleek" as the Carrera tail, but I guess "correct" since it came out of the factory that way.

Lower your front end.......

Just a couple of questions...

At what speed (corners) did you notice additional body roll?

How old are your shocks/torsion bars/sway bars?

Maybe something is wrong like a bad shock, broken sway bar mount etc.

You shouldn't have to adjust ride height, assuming it was correct before the rear spoiler was added.

Also note that at speed (and it does take a fair amount of speed for the spoilers to become effective- like 70mph or so) your car should be more balanced. Perhaps what feels more skittish at the front is a result of improved rear grip. Just a thought.

Island,

Is it a Carrera tail? I might be interested.

Let me know, if you really want to sell it.

it's an early turbo Carrera tail . ... looks like JAdams

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1132850676.jpg

except it's red.

island911 PM sent about your tail

I like tails in general, and that happens to be my favorite version. Looks great IMO!

That tail looks awesome, keep it. If you decide not to keep it then send it my way :D

Just install a lip spoiler in front to balance the car.

BTW, Did I say that it looks awesome SmileWavy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by racer
[B]Just a couple of questions...

At what speed (corners) did you notice additional body roll?

How old are your shocks/torsion bars/sway bars?

I noticed the body roll at slower speeds than I think it would take to create a strong down-force on the tail. 2nd gear 40 mph.

Shocks are pretty new, Green Bils. This car always handled unreal.......maybe it's coincidence but right after I put the tail on, I noticed the change. Maybe my body guy was out joyriding??:eek:






"wachuko
That tail looks awesome, keep it. If you decide not to keep it then send it my way

Just install a lip spoiler in front to balance the car.

BTW, Did I say that it looks awesome"

Thanks, I like it too....My wife isn't too keen on it. That said; it's not for sale yet but you never know.......What color is your car?
BTW...I already have the chin rubber spoiler.

Mine is also red and dusty, just bought it :)
But I'm having mine painted in a few weeks, when the pay check arrives.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171385769.jpg


It's a little heavier than the original deck lid, basically its the rubber lip that is the extra weight.

+1 to what Scooter said.....it looks Rockin'!!!

I can attest to this! Even when you think you've ruined a fog light, then you check and realise that all is well and there's no damage to be seen!;)

Wish I could say the same about my Jeep...:rolleyes:

Mattcamp, how did the car perform at 60-100 mph with the tail compared with before.

It feels like someone is lifting my front end off the road..........that may be a little exaggerated but compared to before....big difference. After the tail install on my way home from the body shop, lane changes on the freeway were scary.......It was cold outside but dry.........downhill @ about 120, right hand smooth corner, right hand lane....started in the corner and felt like the front was sliding on ice....by the time I finished the corner that I had driven hundreds of times before with no problem...I was in the left lane....heart pumping, and worried about black ice the rest of the way home.
Point and moral....there was no freaking ice!!!!!!
I crawled under the front end and saw nothing out of place. What the H3LL???
Still drives straight as an arrow.
Any Ideas???

...
Thanks, I like it too....My wife isn't too keen on it. That said; it's not for sale yet but you never know.......What color is your car?
BTW...I already have the chin rubber spoiler.


My car is Slate Blue Metallic (Schieferblaumetallic - Paint code L661 / X6)... but don't worry, I have the technolgy to make it change colors, :D .

I currently have one that I purchased from a fellow member of Pelican. But it lacks the rear (second) small grill. So looking to see if I can find one like yours. Let me know what you decide. In the mean time I am finishing the repairs on the one I have and should have it painted by the next weekend. I will post photos when I am done.

My suggestion, again, is to keep it. Looks real good in your car. But my offer stands of buying it if you decide to sell it.

Here is the current one I have:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171392185.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171392203.jpg

SmileWavy

That sounds strange, the opposite of what I hope my wing will do.
BTW, the wing will NOT create any downforce, just less lift.
I guess you have seen these?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171393894.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171393925.jpg

{quote}
My car is Slate Blue Metallic (Schieferblaumetallic - Paint code L661 / X6)... but don't worry, I have the technolgy to make it change colors, :D .

I currently have one that I purchased from a fellow member of Pelican. But it lacks the rear (second) small grill. So looking to see if I can find one like yours. Let me know what you decide. In the mean time I am finishing the repairs on the one I have and should have it painted by the next weekend. I will post photos when I am done.

My suggestion, again, is to keep it. Looks real good in your car. But my offer stands of buying it if you decide to sell it.

Here is the current one I have:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171392185.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171392203.jpg

SmileWavy [/B][/QUOTE]

Isn't it funny how $hit works out? I would rather have the tail without the grill. Paint your tail pewter metalic glasurit 956 and ship it here. Wanna trade?

Deal. What is the color code of your paint (should be on a sticker inside the front trunk, passenger side beam) so I can stop by the paint store and get the correct paint. L956?? )

Also send me photos of the engine side of the wing.

I will keep you posted on the progress. Always good to have some additional pressure to move along a project. :) I will send you a PM with my contact info.

Well, here's a couple. You had the chin spoiler first, then added the tail, correct? With only that chin spoiler, you were reducing the lift at the front and not the back. With the new spoiler on the back, you are reducing it on both ends. At the speeds you quote, the aero lift forces are starting to get significant. By adding the rear spoiler you have altered the aero balance of the car. Now the rear sticks better and the front will want to understeer a little more, or the rear will want to oversteer a little less, depending on how your suspension is set up.

You might also have had a different fuel level. Less fuel will give you a higher ride height in the front which will increase understeer in fast corners.

You also may have not gotten your tires fully up to temp. Cold tires do not grip nearly as well as warm ones. There will be less grip available on a cold road anyway, ice or no ice.

I doubt the car rolls much more though. Theoretically you have slightly raised the center of gravity of the car with the extra weight of the spoiler up above the center of gravity of the original car and this will make the car roll more for a given lateral acceleration. I really, really, doubt that you can feel the difference. It will be quite small.

JR

ditto, except the 'paint' part.

I keep telling myself 'better cooling, w/ the 2nd grill.' --but I still just want the Weissachs look. http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/sad2.gif

In no way am I a fan of any type of tail unless it is there for a purpose ie racing stability, turbo inter cooling etc. Otherwise it only detracts from the clean 911 lines. Most people rave about the look of the early unmolested 911"s with the clean look but think nothing of adding a tail for no particular reason to a later car.

I guess I have the same pet peeve about porsche scripts which again I think detracts form the 911 lines. After all it is the lines of the 911 that attracted us to the car to begin with-why molest it??

Only my opinion I guess.

My paint code is L956 but before you go to the paint store, we should talk first......PM me your phone #. I also would like to see some close up pics and underside pics. Thanks......you never know what good deals one might find here on the Pelican....
M.