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-   -   do your power windows work with out the key in ignition (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/330098-do-your-power-windows-work-out-key-ignition.html)

930LDR 02-15-2007 09:44 AM

My windows will work w/or without the key in the ignition and even after I exit the car. The damn thing is also eating batteries like noone's business. I'll have to look to see if this could be a partial cause.

Wil Ferch 02-15-2007 10:29 AM

I'm tellin' ya...this is the cause...because the relay is always energized ( allowing PW to work at all times)...and it shouldn't.

To others...yes, Porsche has used many unfused circuits and that's not only a poor design / fire hazard..it makes troubleshooting these things tough too.

For most cases...the always-energized relay is thought to be a bad door-activation switch ( dome lights), even though...paradoxically....the dome lights might function properly with door open/closed.

- Wil

rick-l 02-15-2007 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mysterytrain

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1171393865.jpg
The convenience relay gets power from the Red/blk wire that is always hot. The solenoid is tied to ground thru the door switch. When you open one of the doors the solenoid is activated sending power to fuse 21 and allowing you to open or close the windows with using the ignition switch. Pretty slick!

In the newer cars they replaced the "Convenience Relay" with a couple of transistors they stuck in the "Power Window Relay".
Quote:

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
I'm tellin' ya...this is the cause...because the relay is always energized ( allowing PW to work at all times)...and it shouldn't.


- Wil

This is the way it was designed to operate.
If it is working properly, and it's easy to troubleshoot, it is not draining your battery.

930LDR 02-15-2007 03:55 PM

So where am I looking for the potential culpret?

Icemaster 02-15-2007 06:02 PM

Listen to Wil.

Check the door plungers. Most common failure point for US spec cars is there. If the plungers (little plungers that activate the interior lights when you open teh door) are fouled up, old, or shorted, the relay remains energized and will drain your battery.

Easy test:

Start your car, open the windows. Turn the car off, pull the key, and close the windows. Open the drivers side door, try to open teh windows. If they open again, that's probably where it is.

Reach down and push it in and out about a dozen times on the drivers side and do it again. Repeat for passengers and you can determine which door is bad.

rick-l 02-15-2007 10:28 PM

Unless the windows work with both doors closed and the key in your hand this is probably not the problem.

rnln 05-29-2007 07:47 PM

On my car (87), I have both relays (power window and convenience) but power windows always work all the time. I tried pulling off each relay, and both relay but nothign change to power windows.
Anyone suspect anything?

porschefool 05-29-2007 09:10 PM

Hmmm. Mine work anytime, key or not, open or not...'79 Targa.
I never thought about a fused-shut relay, will have to investigate.
After 10 months of ownership, no battery drain, either...
I know the circuit's fuse works properly, after replacing a window switch and wiring it wrong!

rnln 05-29-2007 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by porschefool
Hmmm. Mine work anytime, key or not, open or not...'79 Targa.
I never thought about a fused-shut relay, will have to investigate.
After 10 months of ownership, no battery drain, either...
I know the circuit's fuse works properly, after replacing a window switch and wiring it wrong!

do you drive your car daily or once in a while?

porschefool 05-29-2007 10:34 PM

I drive it daily when the weather is nice.. but in Seattle that means it's in the garage 10 months out of the year.
Seriously, it's sat for a week or two without being started before with no ill effects.
YMMV.

rnln 05-30-2007 08:22 PM

I measured mine today and found both gate 87 and 30 are hot all the time. Just like I guess, someone hot wire the window/relay.

1 question though, my relay gate labels don't look normal. They are: 87, 30, 14 (or 15), S, 1.
Anyone know how to translate?


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