Can a 3.0L handle a turbo?
 

Now that I have been scared off the 3.6 conversion!!!:(

I am thinking of a 3.0L or 3.2. There is a company that makes a turbo kit that would work well on these cars...even thought they don't have a kit for these cars.

But will the 3.0 or 3.2 handle the power? how buch psi can they handle?

why are you scared off the 3.6 conversion? There is not much behind it.
Converting a 3.0 or a 3.2 to a turbo is a bigger hassel.

If you read my other thread, some guys are saying there is a lot behind it.
Mounting a Turbo to a 3.0 or a 3.2 would be very easy....in terms of installing it. The rest is up in the air.

STS turbo makes a kit for the ls-1 GM engine that goes at the back of the cra not under the hood. I have first hand experiance of the power gains from this kit. Not to mention the cost of a 3.0 and a turbo is cheaper then the 3.6.

Well, you are right about the costs, but the result with 3.6 would be more reliable and would last longer than a 3.0/3.2 with a turbo. I am also afraid, that the 3.0/3.2 will consume fare more gas and requests higher maintenance costs.
I did a 3.6 conversion last year with less than $7000.
3.6 engine with brain and wires: - $7000
sold my 3.2 for + $4000
Timmins conversion Kit approx - $2500
Oil cooler upgrade: $600 (you need this also with a turbo)
Upgrade to Big reds: $2000 (would also recommend with turbo)
approx - $1000 for small parts....

How on earth would a turbocharged 3.0 or 3.2 not bring the weight and power gains that would scare someone off from a 3.6? Displacement -- literally -- is as light as air. Turbochargers, plumbing and intercoolers are not. And of course the torque characteristics of a piggybacked turbo will be harder on a 915 than the linear delivery of a 3.6.

If 3.6 horsepower is important to you, don't screw with some non OEM turbo on a 3.0. Get a 3.6. Sure, you can possibly get an early 3.0 turbo, but I hear lag is abysmal with those motors. Plus 3.0 turbos are fairly rare, IIRC.

I love my turbo conversion and it has very little if any lag whatsoever and mine started as a 9.3:1 sc engine

Wow! That's fairly high compression for a turbo motor of the SC era.

Didn't read the threads that scared you away from a 3.6, but if you're being told that it's easier, cheaper, and more reliable to turbo charge a 25 year old+ 3.0, I think you're being misled...in a big way.

Squires (STS) will sell anyone a "Kit", which will be a basic low boost system, which they need to do because they can't afford the bad P.R. of smoking your engine with a decent hi-boost system....AKA turning your 911 engine into a 100% efficient oil pump. They don't sell management systems, forged pistons, or any of the countless innards that you REALLY need in order maintain decent (14psi +) boost , for decent durations of time (like pulling a 12 % grade for 20 miles)...or can you say Time Trial.
BTDT , and most of these turbo kits are just re-packaged whiz bang kits of the 80's, which never stressed the utmost importance of proper engine internals, and engine management .
BAE Turbos came close, the owner (late) Bob Mclure was a Porsche junkie and went the xtra 10 yards making his kits "Adequate" . STS is enjoying their 15 minutes of fame right now with their "Rear mount" turbo system (patented too !); Porsche Ag had their 911 turbo "Rear mounted" back when air was clean and sex was dirty.
If you can write the checks for a hot 911 3.0 forced induction engine...it will do everything you need it to do.
Or you can write one check to the 911 dismantler and put that bad boy 3.6 big torque engine in and call it a day.
Both avenues offer rewards...all MOTOR will be less expensive.
Vent session OFF.
Marty

super charge it

Considering the resale of your 3.0, I can't see how a 3.6 conversion would cost more than a turbo install. To do it correctly a turbo will end up costing far more. If reliability is important to you, (holding boost for a long duration), then you will need to do it right.

Personally Id go for a 3.6 if I where you.

FWIW, many of us have done low boost turbo conversions on our 3.2's without any issues whatsoever... many of these cars have seen serious track and drag events. If it's done right, with the right engine management and fuel delivery modifications, there's no reason why it can't/won't handle peak boost for long durations and be a reliable daily street car.

I tore down my motor after 2 years of running a low boost bolt-on turbo system and everything inside was still perfect... I tore it down to install more go-fast-HP-bits to handle higher boost :cool:

Ben doesn't mention that he is on his second engine.

-Andy

You mentioned on your other thread that you found a 3.6 equipped with the conversion bits for $7000 CDN. That's a really low price for a healthy motor...

If, for whatever reason(s) you are up in the air about how to get serious power out of your car, the price is right for the displacement conversion - hands down.

If money is no object, then.......

Well I would say that unless the 3.6 is just not doing it for you with the HP you are into a lot more money for a 3.0 turbo or even more for a 3.2 turbo.

3.2 ~5500 for a descent engine
turbo exhaust ~2500 for a good set of heat exchangers and muffler
turbo charger ~1000 for a used modern turbo
engine mgmt sys ~2000 for something like a HALTECH
the list goes on for a while but I calculated something like 20K for a 500 hp turbo conversion. I bought a 3.3 complete turbo system and haltech engine mgmt system and saw how much more I need to buy. I have a 3.6 conversion in my 74 and it is a real pleasure to drive. I plan on swapping that drive train into my 67 and putting the turbo in my 74.

Having done the 3.6 and being well on my way to building a turbo 3.4 I would say that the 3.6 is easily 5 or 6k cheaper way to go.

dont know if my drunken ramble helps but a 3.6 is a very fun car to drive around.

:eek:
In that case, get a 3.6...;)

Low blow man that was my fault not the engines read through the thread it was a 50 cent hose that caused the melt down and my customers are still running theirs strong

This board should yeild better information than this. There is a lot of total BS on this thread concerning turbo transplants and kits.

Talk to the folks who have done each of these conversions - 3.0/3.2 turbo kits, 3.2, 3.6, 3.3T and get some factual data instead of opinions. Factual data being cost, what they did, what they did that they didn't have to do (such as add an engine management system or huge brakes), and what they use the car for. I would be totally confused if in the position of the poster at this point.

ok point taken

I used a stock sc engine 81 9.3:1
turbonetics T4 TO4E $750
ssi/early HE $800
made the stainless cross over @ a retail of 600
Tial BOV 200
Tial wastegate 200
Megasquirt EFI $800
3.2 intake $200
pressure piping $300 and all my fab time
muffler $200 materials and my time


everything worked very well until the waste gate to turbo hose melted

what a bunch of garbage

I don't think it's total B.S. Maybe aside of the engine management of a 3.6, the 3.6 seems to be a straightforward swap. I can't remember all the details, but in the end, one has a stock OEM engine in a stock lighter weight car, which nods toward higher performance and still has OEM reliability.

Secondly, with the 3.6, one just needs to source the engine and management, and I believe they're pretty much finished fishing for parts. Look at what Ben lists as the parts he needed for his turbo. Can all that be easily sourced?

Third, as to big brakes, etc., well any increase in power should be fortified with larger brakes and other modifications to deal with that increase.

. no kidding

We have enough people on this BBS that have turbocharged a 3.0 or installed a 3.6...so if you haven't done either... then don't comment.;)

i enjoyed my aftermarket 3.0 turbo. My motor was already well on its way out but i threw it on anyway(poor leak-down). Sure it shortened its life a bit...

but it was less then $2000.

i already had a 3.0 and it transformed what i feel was an underpowered car. Later i put a 3.3 turbo in it. now THAT was fun.

never been in a 3.6 car. so cant comment on that.

There is a way to build something on the cheap side that wont last. However, building a turbo engine that you can take out and drive hard without having to worry if it will blow up is not cheap. P&C alone will be almost 3K. My ealier post was based on taking into consideration a large intercooler, p&c, and lots of other things.

I see prices on here that dont seem very realistic. 200 for a 3.2 intake would be very cheap. Every one that I have seen sell go for around 500 - 650.

With the 3.6 you can just use the factory engine mgmt system with a harness that is available from Patrick Motorsports or build your own harness. The 3.6 conversion is a matter of a flywheel, exhaust, and that harness to make it work.

People get caught up in the bigger picture debate of where the better bang for the buck is, in terms of improving 911 performance. But that seems out of place in this thread, where there's a very specific history (unless I'm missing something).

In_style has no motor at all -- as in a roller with a big hole in the back. He'd found a 3.6 with the conversion parts available for 7K Canadian (6K US?). He was concerned about budget and how the additional weight and power of a 3.6 would mandate a lot of other expensive upgrades.

So from a bang for the buck perspective, you've got to figure in the cost of a 3.0 or 3.2, for starters. Because right now he doesn't have anything to put a turbocharger onto. Add to that the cost of a turbocharging system. And then someone explain to me how that's a less-than-US$6,000-solution -- that is also somehow less powerful and lighter than a 3.6 swap. I'm scratching my head. Yes, turbocharging can give you 3.6 power and 3.6 (and then some) weight. But those are the things that were scary for him in terms of brake and suspension upgrades -- so where does it get us?

Maybe I'm missing something. But in_style seemed to have been scared off by what most of us would consider a real bargain. And then the solution he asked about in this thread seemed to compound the things that scared him away from the bargain in the first place.

In my opinion, the problem wasn't so much with the solutions offered as with the odd logic behind the question.

(3.2 intake)off ebay no rails or injectors or TB good P&Cs not mahle though are about 2 gs. but most don't even switch p&c's look at protomotive they do a ton of conversions with stock intertnals. look at tsuter his has been turbocharged since the middles 80's with little trouble at all. sammy2g is the same. and a couple others on this board. in fact merv's and my car are really the only ones that have different internals

agreed if there is a hole with nothing in it a 3.6 would probably be the way to go unless you could find a 930 engine ready to bolt in

oh and one other thing. is that we all like what we have and for specific reasons for me it was all about the project and doing all of it myself with suggestions from some experienced people so it really is to each there own.. The 3.6 is a great combo and I was unawre of the deal he had found. if I were in his shoes for that kind of money I would have jumped on it.. but the question was can a 3.0 handle a turbo and the answer is yes!!!!!

I think someone mentioned engine weight:

I guess for this application the most important fact is that no engine currently exists.

The next most important information would be what exactly is the application? Do you have the skills and tools to do a 3.6L transplant or will installation be farmed out? What is your budget? What are you going to use the car for? What is your driving style?

Some folks do not like turbos. They like the exhaust note of a N/A engine. That would eleminate any turbo or kit from the equasion.

A turbo kit does not seem to be a good idea given that no engine exists. If turbocharging is desired then a 930 engine is logical.

Given that a 3.6L engine and transplant kit are available at a good price that is the logical thing to do. If the budget does not include transmission, suspension, and brake upgrades then the power level needs to be kept low so that the car does not self destruct. A stock 3.6L or stock US 930 engine would be the most power I would put into a stock 911 chassis.

I have made up my mind!!!

I am going to be buying the 3.6 and doing the conversion. I thanks everyone for their opinions, and have read every post through. I will order the motor today, and keep everyone posted.

Thanks again.

YEA!!
Good for you!

where is sammyg2 when you need him. He is running a bolt-on turbo kit on his engine and seems quite happy

Where do you buy big reds for $2000?

George

Oh yea big reds for 2K sign me up!!! I was thinking about going with boxster brakes on my next project ... you can buy the calipers for all 4 corners for anywhere from 500 - 800 (ebay) and the conversion kit is somewhere around 500... so nice 4 piston calipers that are designed to stop a 3200 pound car for around a grand.

this thread did get OT mid way.

a 3L is bulit proof and can still be reliable with one of the low-boost turbo kits, however this would not net 3.6 power

a stock 3L making 3.6L power would have a shorter life.


your 3.6L is a DEAL. they are incredible engines. and will hurl your earlier 911 down the road.

most 911's have decent brakes, defiently good enough for street driving.

most stock 911's also come with somewhat soft suspension, however switching to larger torison bars, and blisten sports is not that expensive, i believe someoen has ALL of the required bits on sale he on the forum for 1400...i mean all of them.

7000+1400+1600misc = 10 000 and you have yourself a hot rodded 911..

i might have missed some of the conversion kit.... even then, if you come in under 20k for your build you added up a BUNCH of good deals

cheers
Nick

Was an external oil cooler mentioned? 3.6s require those.

Check this link
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Porsche-911-Carrera-84-89-Turbo-Kit_W0QQitemZ250087826200QQihZ015QQcategoryZ102344 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Can a 3.0L handle a turbo?
 

Big reds:
I used front and rear 930 rotors: $500 on Ebay Germany
Front and Rear big red Calipers: $1000 also on Ebay
Set of pads: $100
Set of adapters: $300
Set of braided brake lines: $120
Adjustment of fron valance for 930 rotors: $250
Also something around $2300
You can find sometimes a whole Big red set including everything you need (except the adjustment of the front valance) for around $2200 to $2500 on Ebay (well in Germany, donno about US).

Oil Cooler: I used stock 993 front fender cooler: $250 used, fan included

Exhaust/Mufflers: I used stock 993 mufflers: came with engine, so did not need to pay for.

Thank goodness! At that price it would have been a mistake not to!