Turbo 3.2 Proyect Part 2 Dyno Results
 

As we all know i turbocharge my 3.2,and i had it Dyno and the results are;
at 5500 RPM @ 276 HP at the wheels
we pick up 100 Horsepower with the system
I have put 700 miles on it and no problems at all yet.Im looking for 50 more HP any ideas ?
Regards Juan
www.geocities.com/titos88911/MY911.html

Juan,

Tell me a bit more about your turbo system? What kind of turbo are you using? WHo did your chip? are you intercooled?

Thanks

Scott

Scott,if you go to the top of the page and look at topics from last 45 days then go to # 2,you will find the complete report,and the rest of the inf,is in the web page that i posted in case that you are interesred in the whole combo deluxe package,but to answer yous qs,is a Garett turbo,the chip is custom,and no intercooler yet but is on the WAY SOOOON!!!!!!
hope this help
Regards Juan

Juan, Good HP !! You gotta figure you lose at least 20% going through the drivetrain,so you picked up at least 75 or so with the turbo. You're well on your way !!
Marc

My prediction: Car go BOOM.

Juan - those figures are right in line with the SOK supercharger setup w/no intercooler. Good for 260HP at the rears in an SC. A 3.2L displacement with the same setup as th 3.0SC would be worth 277HP. This is a safe margin if the boost is tied down. Obviously, adding an intercooler would give you an even bigger margin of safety. I wouldn't try to bump up the HP any more though, unless you lower the compression. Enjoy the ride!

By the way - they DID recommend the highest octane fuel, right? At 0.5bar you have added around 1.85 compression points to your engine. I can't remeber right off, but I think the Carrera was 9.3:1. This would put you at around 11.15:1 ratio. The Motronic will retard the ignition, but living in Florida with A/C you may need a bit more just to be on the safe side. Protomotive may have told you all this. Just don't want to see anything bad happen to your cool setup!

[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 12-28-2000).]

50 more? Dude, go get a vette.
I sweat just adding a chip and a few other goodies to my car. It's around now for 16 years because the internal fortitude far exceeds what's required to support the power output. You're going to toast that thing if you keep that up. I'm happy with, what I assume to be around 217 HP. I need to get it dyno tested though.
Jack's got the right idea: You get a bigger normally aspirated porsche engine.
...however, if I'm going to do that, I'd rather just wait for my 993 Dream Car and take the whole shebang.
Oh, after I take off whatever is adding so much weight. What the hell did they put in those cars to make them so heavy?


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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

[This message has been edited by Kurt B (edited 12-27-2000).]

The weight in the later cars came partly from having more luxury items, heavy motors in the power seats, the retractable spoilers, the climate control system, etc. The cars also got bigger and bigger. A 993 is 5 inches wider and 5 inches longer than a 1973 911.

But the other factor is that they also added a lot to make the car safer. Reinforced side protection, crumple zones, a more rigid chassis. Those are the things I don't want to think about when my early car is sliding through a turn at 120 mph. Current-model convertibles will do better than my car in a roll-over.

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T (3.6) sunroof coupe

Juan,
did the promotive headers get rid of the heat exchangers? I have been contemplating this mod also. I already have 964 cams and mass air. I rekon I will junk the mass air and go with a MAP type engine management. Does you system retard timining under boost, or are you stuck with the motronic curve?
Cheers.

Thank you guys,i take all the feed back, POSITIVE and negative,obviously some menbers haven't seen a 1200 HP street Porsche but thats another subject.....

Beetos,im my set up im not running headers just the stock heat exchangers,as far as the timming this has not been retarded ,if im stock with the curve? we can remap the chip as many times as we want to obtain the best performance for the set up,different from the mass production chips.hope this help any qs just ask.
Regards Juan

You go Juan!! I don't think that you'll have any problems with the power output you are seeing. PROVIDED that you avoid detonation. **********Will the DME really retard timing?? I didn't know that there was a knock sensor on early DME cars******** If promotive didn't include it, try a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. I might also recommend installing a air/fuel guage (taps off the 02)

Anyway, as I understand it, the 3.2 and 3.3 use the same crank and rods. Also, the 3.2's have piston squirters. I saw your additional cooling fans, so my guess is you'll be fine.

So they used a Garrett.. do you know if it is a T04 or one of the new VNT monsters?? Does the boost come up smooth? what RPMs?

I've been wondering about 60-100 hp more and I think that a low psi turbo might be the most cost effective sol'n.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!

Scott,Thanks ,the turbo is not the monster type, the boost is VERY smooth and comes in at 4100 RPM no turbo lag at all,we change the fuel pressure regulator ,for the money in MY opinon there were 3 choices for me
1- sell the car ,and get a RX-7 and make it a 500 HP car
2- Get a twin turbo supra
3-Install a turbo in my car ,for sure the most economical solution.
by the time we get done with it we will have a realistic $10,000 in the engine,and a 550 HP Monster.....

.

[This message has been edited by beetos (edited 12-27-2000).]

Very cool....Juan,
Have you considered a timing retard device that allows relatively highly advanced timing under vaccum and 0psi conditions but retards a by user definable amount under boost. This will allow a very perky engine under low load and off boost conditions while allowing safe operating under boost conditions. I believe the motronic system just allows a baseline timing map with no reference to positive manifold pressure. Split second sells these devices and I have seen them used on supercharged conversions. I would personally use a programmable system like the SDS units. These programmable systems also allow knock sensors to be fitted which the motronic does not have but I have heard people say that the air cooled motors are too noisey, (however, I am sure that the factory 964 / 993's use knock sensors with their relatively high compression). Any detailed pics of the conversion (turbo etc). Thanks buddy.


[This message has been edited by beetos (edited 12-27-2000).]

Any stock engine can run 0.5bar safely. Adding an intercooler will help with the extra 50 hp you are looking for. Juan's car was done by Proto tech affiliated with Protomotive Inc. Todd Knighton really knows his stuff so Juan can feel safe with his guidance. Besides, Protomotive builds 3.8 twin turbo monsters, so this project is nothing new for him. Their kits include everything needed such as remapped chip, dual stage rising rate fuel pressure regulator,etc. If someone knocks (no pun intended) Juan project, they are either jealous or don't know too much about forced induction.

Mike
1986 Carrera t

Thanks Mike.........

This is not a knock, but a bona fide question.
Doesn't 4100 RPM sound a little high for boost to start. Factory is about 2500RPM right? Turbo diesel Benz about 1800 to 2000. Maybe its the limit of .5 bar.
It would just break my heart to have to drive only between 4100 and 6000.

Sidebar
I've even seen turbos with a can of compressed air piped to the exhaust side of the turbo, with driver operated switch. Push the button and spin it up early.

Second sidebar
A friend in another state had a supercharged 90 model and one short trip made me want one REAL BAD!!! FEAR of the 915 and high compression 3.2 and lack of funds have so far kept me coming up for more air.
I need more comments like "any stock motor..." to boost my confidence. And one comment from the spouse "Sure, honey anything you want. You should also think about getting that nice 89 turbo we saw last week. I really liked that color. Maybe for your birthday."
All puns intended.
David

Can someone confirm something or put me right, but does'nt 'Turbo Lag' refer to when the turbo 'kicks-in'?.
If so, 4,100rpm sounds quite late to me?.
I enjoy driving my car with performance but ususally try to change gear between 4/5000rpm.
That increase in power does sound good though! and an honest dyno power, rather than 'I reckon.....'
What do you normally rev to on acceleration Juan?
rgds
Ben

Ben,

Turbo 'lag' refers to a time delay between the instant when your foot stomps the loud pedal and when the perception in the seat of the pants that engine power is coming up to steam, so to speak! It is not related, strictly speaking, to any rpm level, though different combinations of cams, manifold layout, turbo sizing, etc. certainly can affect both turbo lag and the lowest rpm level at which max boost is available!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Juan,

Congratulations on the conversion. A few questions:
1) Did you get any sort of warranty on the conversion
2) Any restrictions on the use from protomotive eg no track use or the like
3) Have your oil temps gone up

It was brave decision to dyno your car especially w/o an intercooler. I hope all goes well with your car.

The oil temperatures have stay the same as before the set-up,since i don't have a intercooler yet what we did ,we install a air temp gauge( digital) that will read the air comming to the turbo and from the turbo to let me know when i have to back off,thats why was easy to make the dyno runs, at the dyno test we make 4 passes and the temp going in was 165,we know that with the intercooler we will lower it to 100 or so, they don't want it to be more than 200 or so,so far the highest was 191,but it cools down pretty fast,warranty ? they will stand for their work but realistic if the engine blows up you are in your own which i can understand been my at the wheel,restrictions none,they even call me to see if i have lose any races and why,so we change information to find the best set up for me,concerning the turbo boost if you want to come at out the hole hard the boost be there,if you are crusing at 80 MPH,and you just step on the gas the boost be there all the way until you let it go,last week we got 165 MPH again and and the boost was there,of course theres many set-ups better than mine,im just sharing the information with people that are interested in this type of activite,for the money i got a great package,considering that 1 1/2 year ago everyone was telling me that this was impossible without lowering the compression and the very first price was $12,500.
P.S. That article in the latest EXCELLENCE,magazine of the cabriolet was built by the same people that did my set up,so i feel that they have done their Homework.

Jaun,
Sounds like you have a great setup and your having fun with the car. I have an 89 Turbo and after researching how to increase the HP a couple of suggestions were passed on to me Here they are FWIW:

I changed the exhaust system to SS after market headers w/exchangers (cold in Colorado) and muffler (which you have already done). Although the benefits of headers are hottly debated the change did eliminate a lot of steel from the exhaust system reducing weight by 30lbs.

Is your waste gate mechanical or electrically controlled? Mechanical waste gates start to open before maximum boost is reached slowly bleeding off the pressure. I purchased an electronic controller that allows you to program the boost pressure limits and pressure levels throughout the rpm range to map it for optimum performance. I haven’t installed it yet, I’m still installing the exhaust and doing general maintenance as the winter project.

The intercooler was already mentioned, that will be the next item I’ll be looking at. Andial and Koklien (SP) make some nice high flow intercoolers. I also have the name of a firm that will build custom intercoolers to owners specifications. The better it breaths the better it goes.

Someone mentioned the fuel presure…Andial also makes a product called a micro fueler that can be adjusted to provide additional fuel as needed under load and higher rpm’s.

The 4100 rpm for boost is about 1000 rpm higher than a 930, with the low end torque provided by the higher compression engine you probably don’t need the boost before 4100.

Enjoy the boost
Todd