Check this out! incredible.

Hi guys,
I've been loking at this "car" for a few days on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=531644052&r=0&t=0
don't you think it's going out of hand??
there you have a modified shell off which you can take the chassis numbers, ducktail, oil cooler, rims, maybe front suspension.
I wonder what it will cost to Restore (recreate?) an RS out of this.
Am I missing something?
GeorgeK

I don't think it's out of hand, a fully restored RS has another zero on that price tag.

If it's got a documented history, could be a great find.

[This message has been edited by cstreit (edited 01-02-2001).]

Well,
Maybe i've lost some info along the way, but I bought a COMPLETE '73 RS for less than that 2 years ago. It needs a body resto, but at least I have a (correct) body to restore...
I feel about this ebay car that it would be worth the chassis numbers, as almost all the rest is not much use. You would be better off to weld the chassis numbers on a 2.4 T and do the rest of the modifications from there. NOBODY will tell the difference, as there are basically none other than the engine, gearbox, spoiler, counters and flares.
I know it sounds a sacrilege, but I know of many a reshelled RS, and the factory made no difference between a '73 RS and T, E or S shell when they were selling complete shells..
MHO, GeorgeK

Ripping the VINs from one car to another has certain highly criminal implications. Let's overlook the criminal aspects of this act of forgery, as that is not as interesting of a topic.

Are you sure that the RS is really the same chassis? I was under the impression that the "real" RS chassis was different in that there were cerain deletions of plastic undercoating (that could be stripped I suppose) but there were also some gussets and strenghening added to the chassis. I would thing a real expert could tell.

The criminal aspects are out of my knowledge, but I'd say if YOU own the 2 shells, you can use the second one as a source of spare parts, and end up with one shell. It would be a forgery to exchange the numbers, but not to use a shell as a spare part. There are many restored RSs with shady shells, not the least those where the chassis number was cut out to make room for a racing fuel cell when new.
About the RS chassis, Here's what I found out, from owning one complete car myself (number 9113600193) and from speaking with my friend/mechanic who's worked at the factory at that time:
-The RS shells are standard 2.4 shells. The factory claimed that the sheetmetal was 0.80 mm thick on the RS. versus 0.88 on the standard shells. ALL the shells I've measured for thickness are between 0.85 and 1 mm thick, std or RS. I know there are many books about the thinner sheetmetal, but me and my mechanic, who's raced all of the factory race cars of the time, have never seen them.
If you take a 2.4 S and you strip it to RS lightweight spec, you end up with a 975-1000 Kg car, roughly as the RS lightweight, even with the undercoating.
THere are NO strenghtenng gussets on the '73 RS. Some had stronger front spindles (bilsteins with reinforcements), and the last 25-40 had RSR wide rear "banana arms" as the RS 3.0 of '74.
The '73 RS had undercoating, at the minimum in the wheelwells, and under the whole car from about chassis number 1200.
Getting back to the Ebay car, if you want to get the shell back to '73 spec, you end up changing the front clip, rear wings, and you will not put '73 metal in there. Wil it still be an original shell if you change the front clip with the chassis number? What about the engine? a '73 RS engine? I'd love to find one? the gearbox woth oil recirculation?

Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful project, but it will cost a fortune!!
Here in Europe you can buy complete RSs for around 65 ot 85.000 Sfr, in good shape, up to excellent! that is about 40 to 55K $.
If someone has conclusive info about the specific, RS only '73 modifications, I'd love to hear from them.
Regards, Georgek


[This message has been edited by GeorgeK (edited 01-02-2001).]

I seem to remember a picture from a book showing gussets on the rear shock mounts on the RS from the factory. I could be wrong. Anyway I agree the fact that the front clip and all 4 quarters need to be redone makes this an expensive project. But then again it may have an interesting racing history which can make it unique and collectible.

If this chassis was initially 'ordered' for rallying, there are quite a few changes, and they are visible ... lower mounting points for the axles on the front struts, continuous welds for all seams in addition to spot-welds, and no sound-deadening anywhere on the car! There was a special 400-series conversion number for the rally cars, but I don't have it at hand.

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

You're absolutely right that a good racing history can make the project more viable (less of a waste?). The car has BTW a Matter roll cage, and it was obviously installed proffessionally, in the style of the factory, or racing teams of the time.
The rear mounts reinforcements were on some RSRs.The "standard" reinforcment on the RSR were the gussets welded at the junction between the 2 longitudinals and the transverse beam for the shocks, which in its form was not too effective, except at collecting rust...
GeorgeK

[This message has been edited by GeorgeK (edited 01-02-2001).]

The car, according to its chassis number was a tangerine touring model, as stated in the auction. According to the Gruber/Konradsheim book "Carrera RS", it came with:
-Tangerine paint, black interior
-M472 touring version
-LSD
-Headrests both sides
-Sportseats
-Addl. long range lights, through the horn grlles
-Manual anternna left side, loudspeaker
-Shoulder/lap belts
-Rear foglight
It was built 04.73, delivered in Germany. What's more, looking at the pics, there is a hydraulic handbrake assy, non-RS steering wheel, some weird counters, crudely put twin trombone oil coolers with taps (?) in the passenger footwell. Is that rust in the pedal cluster location?
from that I gather that it was a privately modified car.

Auction ended at 15K, reserve not met. Yeah, right...
GeorgeK

Funny, not a single one of those parts you mentioned is left on the car.